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Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

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21–30 of 172 posts

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about the open world dimension, it's dropping the player into a world with little to no training. Skyrim, GTA, and RDR2 all share the same "Main Mission" mechanic that helps keep players centered on overall story progression while leaving room for side quests and exploration. This "go there, do this, go there" cycle doesn't exist in BOTW or Elden Ring.

Good observation and if I may I think a great term for this is just 'sandbox' gameplay.

> this is just 'sandbox' gameplay

That sums it up. Enjoyment comes from core game play mechanics, not quest content. I'd be just as happy with core Street Fighter mechanics in an open world, with no-explanation filler content between boss encounters.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#22

I hate to be that guy, but it's not fair to dismiss one of the best open world games released in the last 20 years, and which I believe inspired many things on Elden Ring - I'm talking about Breath of the Wild. Just like how you're introduced to the world is literally how BoTW introduces you to it's own world (could it be a homage?), or something as simple as picking up consumables with a simple press of a button wit…

Zelda BOTW is just the first NES Zelda for the modern era.

Nintendo's open-world is the only open-world I liked.

I can't get immersed in GTA's open world because I'm just a random going on a killing spree for 15 minutes then shut the game down.

I hated Skyrim, the world is big but empty. There is nothing particular about the landscape that makes me want to "go there". Most of the time, I discovered areas because I was going in straight lines.

Zelda on the other hand, I was like "oh wow, a mountain split in two, I wanna see it". The landscape view makes you want to see what's going on and act as a map ("oh so the gemini mountain is on my right, I must be at XXX"). You're on top of a tower, look at the volcano, and you're like "what is that thing moving on the horizon". Same thing for pretty much all divine beasts.

The other nice thing about BOTW's open world is the map. You don't need it. In The Witcher 3 you have a GPS that tells you where to go. When people tells you to go somewhere in this Zelda, you ask people, you look at the road signs, and you go there. This makes the world much more realistic and less empty because you need to interact with it.

To go to the Goron village, you have many ways of doing it, stockpile a huge amount of food to heal while you burn, or go around and talk to people to find the potion. If you choose to stockpile food, you need to hunt, to cook, and to interact with the world once again.

The world is part of the game play, unlike many other open world games where the world is just the scenery where the game play take place.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#23

My own thoughts on Elden Ring are pretty simple. Give the players an absolutely gigantic open world map that you can basically travel from one end to the other without fighting anything, just for exploration's sake. Fill it with thoughtful mob-level NPC placement, making the higher level areas have higher level NPCs. Throw in a giant array of weapons, spells, skills and upgrades to choose from. Throw bosses around ev…

You're in the Lands In Between, a vast uncaring world where you're but a spec. Not just any spec however, you're Tarnished, and youre not the only one. Not all of them care to be great, most of them are just trying to do their thing, and only one other of your fellow Tarnished care about doing the impossible; assembling the Elden Ring. No one cares if you die, in fact most npc are amazed you're not already dead. You can build your outlier how ever you want, play it however you want to play it, and the RP involved means you organically get to your ending based on the quests you choose to care about.

All of this is to say, my mind shifts when I am playing to what CP 2077 could have been. Replace Tarnished with Edge Runner, Lands In Between with Night City, the Elden Ring bringing down a Mega Corp and it all feels natural. Not to bring up CDPR hate or anything, just that Elden Ring fills a hole that was promised by other games.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#24
post #22

I hate to be that guy, but it's not fair to dismiss one of the best open world games released in the last 20 years, and which I believe inspired many things on Elden Ring - I'm talking about Breath of the Wild. Just like how you're introduced to the world is literally how BoTW introduces you to it's own world (could it be a homage?), or something as simple as picking up consumables with a simple press of a button wit…

Zelda BOTW is just the first NES Zelda for the modern era. Nintendo's open-world is the only open-world I liked. I can't get immersed in GTA's open world because I'm just a random going on a killing spree for 15 minutes then shut the game down. I hated Skyrim, the world is big but empty. There is nothing particular about the landscape that makes me want to "go there". Most of the time, I discovered areas because I wa…

Botw is so much more than just NES Zelda. That the two are non linear is just one similarity.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#25

I hate to be that guy, but it's not fair to dismiss one of the best open world games released in the last 20 years, and which I believe inspired many things on Elden Ring - I'm talking about Breath of the Wild. Just like how you're introduced to the world is literally how BoTW introduces you to it's own world (could it be a homage?), or something as simple as picking up consumables with a simple press of a button wit…

Elden Ring has absolutely nothing in common with BOTW. The whole "exiting the cave to reveal the world" is Socrates cave shit. Old as the hills.

Plato

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#26

I hate to be that guy, but it's not fair to dismiss one of the best open world games released in the last 20 years, and which I believe inspired many things on Elden Ring - I'm talking about Breath of the Wild. Just like how you're introduced to the world is literally how BoTW introduces you to it's own world (could it be a homage?), or something as simple as picking up consumables with a simple press of a button wit…

> What I haven't put my finger on was how both of these games propel you to discover the world, and to find out what's above the hill or if there might be a cave in a cliff. I don't know if it's the terrain design that's actually thought through and not left to some algorithm, or if it's simply the perk of having a great brand behind these games that have rewarded us properly for exploring their previous worlds.

Breath of the wild is a game full of secrets. Things are there and they need to be found.

Many other open world games are not. They’re full of missions. Because the ui is so informative, you actually get rapid confirmation that there is nothing.

A lot of missions start at a hub and make you go to a place and then come back. That’s how that portion of the world gets used. Botw doesn’t do this much. Most content that you find is immediately relevant there because that place is interesting in itself.

Lastly, you don’t have a dearth of dialogue to get through things. Dialogue is fine and all but side quests are conceptually very stupid and the writing is inevitably tiresome. It breaks immersion when someone needs you to collect maguffins again.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#27

Just a phenomenal game. IMO, all the From Games are great, but none of them really matched up to the original Dark Souls... until now. I've literally played this every day since it came out, I have over 150 hours, and I still haven't beat it. And still I'm discovering cool new areas, items, and lore. The amount of times I've gotten to a new area and just gone "what in the actual fuck" is too many to count, it's just…

You sure? Bethesda has rereleased the same game 7 times in the last 10 years.

I am partial to the argument that Fallout: New Vegas is close to the perfect open-world game out there.

It gets the open-world aspects right. All of the world is accessible from the start, the only limitations being your ability to tackle stronger enemies (like deathclaws). Exploration is rewarding, not forced. The world is designed such that exploration is driven less by quest markers, but by the player noticing interesting things in the world, like say a giant dinosaur out in the distance.

It has a main storyline, but it is a storyline that can accomodate a huge variety of choices made throughout the game. There's no artificial "essential NPC" mechanic, you can literally kill everyone in the game and the story still works. This makes the game very immersive - the player has absolute free choice in how they want to approach the game, and more importantly it feels like the choices you make and the factions you side with actually matter to the world

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#28
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sure? Bethesda has rereleased the same game 7 times in the last 10 years.

I am partial to the argument that Fallout: New Vegas is close to the perfect open-world game out there. It gets the open-world aspects right. All of the world is accessible from the start, the only limitations being your ability to tackle stronger enemies (like deathclaws). Exploration is rewarding, not forced. The world is designed such that exploration is driven less by quest markers, but by the player noticing int…

New Vegas wasn’t a Bethesda game?

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#29
post #22

I hate to be that guy, but it's not fair to dismiss one of the best open world games released in the last 20 years, and which I believe inspired many things on Elden Ring - I'm talking about Breath of the Wild. Just like how you're introduced to the world is literally how BoTW introduces you to it's own world (could it be a homage?), or something as simple as picking up consumables with a simple press of a button wit…

Zelda BOTW is just the first NES Zelda for the modern era. Nintendo's open-world is the only open-world I liked. I can't get immersed in GTA's open world because I'm just a random going on a killing spree for 15 minutes then shut the game down. I hated Skyrim, the world is big but empty. There is nothing particular about the landscape that makes me want to "go there". Most of the time, I discovered areas because I wa…

One part of BOTW that really stuck out to me is how close, yet far away things felt. You know how when you look at something through a telephoto lens, things get compressed? They did that really well in BOTW. Things could look close and you could see they were there, but when you start moving towards something, there was actually a lot of ground to cover. It helped make the world seem within reach, yet distant at the same time. This made me want to explore cause I was almost there, just gotta get through this valley or around this lake. If the devs and designers are out there reading this, great job and thank you.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#30

Just a phenomenal game. IMO, all the From Games are great, but none of them really matched up to the original Dark Souls... until now. I've literally played this every day since it came out, I have over 150 hours, and I still haven't beat it. And still I'm discovering cool new areas, items, and lore. The amount of times I've gotten to a new area and just gone "what in the actual fuck" is too many to count, it's just…

I'm not a FromSoft aficionado and have only played Bloodborne for about 10 hours, which I enjoyed but probably would never finish. I've followed all the Souls games and now ER, have watched many hours of gameplay, and I honestly don't get the appeal and cult-like following around them.

I can appreciate the detailed environments and characters, the deep lore, RPG aspects, and probably the best combat mechanics and hitbox detection in the industry.

What turns me off is that the entire gameplay loop consists of boss rushes and fighting lower level enemies, just so you can gather loot, level up and fight more enemies and more difficult bosses. It all feels very one dimensional, and before ER introduced the open world aspect, very linear.

I suppose most games can be boiled down to their essence like this and sound boring, but in a game like Fallout 4, BoTW or Skyrim there's much more to do than just combat, crafting, leveling up and exploring. There's a quest system, cooking, companions, horses (the one in ER seems just for traversal?), challenges, complex NPC interactions, branching storylines, etc. They offer a much richer experience than any Soulsborne title I've played or seen.

My impression before ER is that all Soulsborne titles are essentially minor improvements on the same formula, with a lore and environment swap. ER introduces the open world aspect, but ultimately keeps the one dimensional gameplay loop.

I'd love to be proven wrong, and get the appeal of these games, so please correct anything I'm mistaken about above. I don't even have a problem with the difficulty curve if the game would give me reasons to keep playing and git gud. It's just that it doesn't, so the high difficulty is frustrating enough to stop playing.

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