The summary says workers voted "by a wide margin" for a union, but it looks like it was 2,654 votes for, 2,131 against, which is 55.5% to 44.5% or a margin of 11%. I wouldn't call that a wide margin, but maybe it could be considered so in these sorry-ass times of perpetual 51-to-49 deadlock.
Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize
311–320 of 785 posts
Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize
#312I was in a union (not by choice) the first ten years or so of my professional life. To put it in simple terms: I despise them. Yes, of course, they had reason to exist in the dark ages. Today, I think they are in a range between counterproductive and dangerous. Before anyone make a move for the jugular: I make a distinction between union members and union management (the entity). Union members are hard working folks,…
The simple fact is that an adult needs X amount of money to be able to live with roommates, eat, drive their car to your job, etc.
That amount of money is about $15 most places in the country at absolute minimum and that will be a struggle.
If you can't afford to pay someone enough money at 40 hours a week that they can live with 1 other person in an apartment, eat, buy a car, maintain a car, buy gas, and have a small amount of cash left over--then your business isn't a viable business man.
It's "simple economics"
Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize
#313Earlier quoted context omitted.
Their software engineers should, too. You don't actually have to get pipped, get pinged 24/7, and be ground to dust and thrown away to be a successful software engineer.
I will fight tooth and nail to keep our industry from unionizing. One can simply look at the public school system and how well it performs with one of the strongest unions in the country. You don't have well paid teachers (except those who have been teaching for a long time, at the detriment to new teachers),you don't serve the children well and you now have to navigate both a career and politics of a union. Unions b…
There are IT/engineering/developer unions in Europe. Their popularity varies between countries and between sectors.
However, "union shops" or "closed shops" don't exist, so the situation isn't directly comparable to the USA.
Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize
#314I was in a union (not by choice) the first ten years or so of my professional life. To put it in simple terms: I despise them. Yes, of course, they had reason to exist in the dark ages. Today, I think they are in a range between counterproductive and dangerous. Before anyone make a move for the jugular: I make a distinction between union members and union management (the entity). Union members are hard working folks,…
funny how paying for employees is an impossible burden, yet paying for stock buybacks or the excesses of the C-suite isn't
Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize
#315I had a boss who was an expensive consultant for unions. He explained the reason unions in the US were shrinking is that they are too powerful. They control huge pension and healthcare portfolios and can completely control the relationship with employers, especially in closed shop situations. Comparatively, European unions are much "weaker" - or maybe more accurately their purview is much smaller. They control smalle…
>He explained the reason unions in the US were shrinking is that they are too powerful. They control huge pension and healthcare portfolios and can completely control the relationship with employers, especially in closed shop situations. This is interesting. I'm a government employee with a union, a pension, health insurance, the whole deal. The union does not control the pension or healthcare in any way whatsoever.…
Historically the government is better at procuring benefit plans. Back in the 70s and 80s, .gov would throw benefits at employees because they are better at procurement and could grant benefits at $0.80 on the dollar. Companies would throw money at unions to cap liability.
But it does happen, especially with dental and similar plans.
Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize
#316[deleted]
Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize
#317Earlier quoted context omitted.
Every single time I put a notice in a large corporation, they tried to bargain with me to stop me from quitting, offering raises and improved working condition, eg. projects with more leadership roles. So no, they do care in some industries, especially when the cost of hiring a single worker is higher than Amazon warehouse workers entire yearly pay.
So every time you quit you found out that you were paid far less than what your labor was worth...
No, it's the company that found that, I already knew that by that point.
Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize
#318Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Also, when COVID occurred there was little room for teachers to get a say This may have been a positive. The teachers and their unions are only motivated for them to stay home and "safe", forever. It's the customers (parents) who need the leverage to get the teachers to actually deliver the service they're getting paid for, rather than trying to hide from their job indefinitely as many would be happy to do. Unions…
Yeah, but the job they’re supposed to do is educate not necessarily babysit and covid made that separation front and center in a way that was felt by every parent. There’s lots of “well then maybe that should be their mission” but no one wants to put up the capital for public daycare.
It's one of the biggest problems of the US. The population craves a high level of government services like in developed European or Asian countries, but isn't willing to pay for them. So instead the government is stuck playing politics to make the budget work instead of actually taking a cost efficiency mindset. Schools double as daycare because taxpayers don't want to pay for actual daycare. Local road construction is subsidized by the federal government despite maintenance being unsustainable. Budgets by the federal government never balance.
Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize
#319Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, Amazon is allowed to do that. The main caveat is that they have to argue in court that the warehouse would be unprofitable given the union's demands.
>they have to argue in court that the warehouse would be unprofitable given the union's demands. They would? Why? How does the existence of a union prevent a company from firing everyone if it wants to? My understanding is that the only power of a union is that all of its members use collective leverage to get better deals. There is no collective leverage action if everyone is fired.
Federal law.
Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize
#320Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Or maybe Amazon responds with a "business decision" to close JFK8 fulfillment center. It's quite possible. They'll need to unionize several more Amazon facilities in that region to prevent that outcome. Not sure how many more are in process.
The other vote in Alabama failed, by more than 10%.
New York had a long history of powerful unions. Alabama had a long history of not having unions.