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Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

nytimes.com

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Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#61
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't open-shop effectively "no union" in practice? What threat does a union have when the company can just hire non-union workers?

Once you acknowledge that unions are useless and bad, yes, this is correct. If unions were actually beneficial to workers, then companies would have a very hard time hiring non-union workers.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#63

okay this is amazing. but wtf is this sentence? "No union victory is bigger than the first win in the United States at Amazon, which many union leaders regard as an existential threat to labor standards across the economy because it touches so many industries and frequently dominates them."

[deleted]

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#64
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a text-book example of being a victim of your own success. People have had the perks of union membership for so long, that they no long attribute them to the union. All they see are the costs of the union. Also, I feel like it's safe to assume that you don't know any teachers or police officers? Both those groups seem to very much support their unions.

Most teachers I know, and I know a lot of them, don't really like their union because their union is ineffective. If it actually worked for them, they'd be making wages commensurate with their required education levels.

Eh, I think this ends up being a product of local school funding, at least in most smaller size school districts (i.e. not the size of LAUSD). I know my high school paid (and still pays now, a decade later) their teachers substantially more than the next district over. Most of the tenured teachers made 120k+. I don't think that was because they had a better union but because the school district made a conscious choice to try to be the best and to match private schools in quality. It all starts and ends with local parents willing to make a sacrifice in their quality of life to fund schools. Many cities around where I lived were much wealthier (higher home values by 50-100%, many high paying employers) but had much worse schools.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#65
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

David Foster Wallace loved to repeat the object (edit: or subject, depending on usage) after "which" practically every time he employed that word, which technique is usually overkill, but in this case writing it "[...] which company many union leaders regard [...]" would have helped a lot.

is there a name for this grammatical construction? it's one of my favorites in English but I have no idea what it's called. I also wonder if younger readers nowadays would even be familiar with it unless they enjoy reading older literature, as I almost never see it in modern writing.

Lemme see if Garner's Modern English Usage names it...

Well, for one thing, the section on "which" begins: "This word, used immoderately, is possibly responsible for more bad sentences than any other in the language" :-)

Ah, it refers me to a more relevant section for this construction, "Remote Relatives". Checking that.

"Antecedent" and "relative clause" are relevant terms, meaning the word to which "which" refers, and the clause containing "which", respectively, but I can't find a name for specifying the antecedent after "which", in this text. Actually, on a skim, I didn't even see that presented as an option.

[EDIT] Incidentally, it appears the Times usage is correct, anyway, if still ill-advised—the antecedent should be the closest possible candidate before the relative clause, so "[...] Amazon, which [...]" is correct.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#66
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't open-shop effectively "no union" in practice? What threat does a union have when the company can just hire non-union workers?

Unions often train their members and self-enforce safety standards. Both of these things provide a higher quality labor pool for the employer.

Training members for an unskilled job doesn't really improve the value delivered by that worker. You can see why employers would not see that as a benefit of a union. Skilled jobs like the trades are already differentiated based on skill and reputation through the contract bidding process.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#67
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't open-shop effectively "no union" in practice? What threat does a union have when the company can just hire non-union workers?

Once you acknowledge that unions are useless and bad, yes, this is correct. If unions were actually beneficial to workers, then companies would have a very hard time hiring non-union workers.

This makes zero sense, you're drawing huge conclusions based on a prisoner's dilemma situation. Of course it's beneficial to be a defector, you get all the benefit but none of the cost. Once no one is unionized at all or it's so small to not have any pull the benefit disappears.

It's like saying that taxes are useless because given the choice people would opt-out if they could, ignoring the consequences of if everyone did that.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#68
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't open-shop effectively "no union" in practice? What threat does a union have when the company can just hire non-union workers?

Once you acknowledge that unions are useless and bad, yes, this is correct. If unions were actually beneficial to workers, then companies would have a very hard time hiring non-union workers.

In what way do you believe unions are useless and bad? That's like saying "companies are useless and bad" - some companies may be useless and bad, but you'd need to show an essential reason why the majority must end up that way.

FWIW, I think you're wrong and that unions are good at improving worker conditions and pay, and that's why companies engage in aggressive union-busting and anti-union propaganda to prevent unionisation and broadly keep union membership down.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#69

This is fantastic news. Well done, Amazon employees! I'm glad to see that Amazon's anti-union propaganda was taken for the nonsense that it is. Hopefully the employees of other Amazon warehouses will be inspired to do the same, after this win for workers.

Their software engineers should, too. You don't actually have to get pipped, get pinged 24/7, and be ground to dust and thrown away to be a successful software engineer.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#70

Can Amazon now just shut down that warehouse and fire all the workers? It would seem like a sensible business move, even if it involves a little bit of service disruption for users in New York.

NYC is one of amazon's largest markets, and this is the biggest warehouse in the city. There are 8300 employees in the bargaining group which doesn't include management, engineers who do repair work for the robotics and so on.

They cannot afford to close this shop, and it's obviously playing a big role as to why this location has successfully unionized while the location in Alabama has not.

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