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Excel 2.0 – Is there a better visual data model than a grid of cells?

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Re: Excel 2.0 – Is there a better visual data model than a grid of cells?

#61

Post by slaymaker1907 »

ebspelman wrote: post #56

Even though current VR/AR interfaces are completely useless for Excel or other data-management tasks (no keyboard support, unreliable controls, lack of development interest), I think in the future there are more embodied / spatial treatments of data access that could feel like an improvement on '2D' Excel. As the author mentions, the original moniker for Excel was VisiCalc - a visual calculator. There's no inherent r…

There has been a lot of work looking into 3D visualization, but it really seems like the benefits are pretty minimal compared to the drawbacks. Even 2D visualizations seem to do better when limited to a single spatial dimension for carrying information (i.e., how pie charts are inferior bar charts in almost every way).

Re: Excel 2.0 – Is there a better visual data model than a grid of cells?

#62

Post by anthk »

taherchhabra wrote: post #18

in the metaverse, you will have 3d tables, x,y and z axis, you would be able to twist and turn those 3d tables to get different views, join with other 3d tables

I can do that with GNU teapot.

No VR needed. Heck, you could do that even with a 486 and a terminal attached to it.

https://github.com/samuelludwig/teapot

GNU teapot intro from the old K.Mandla:

https://kmandla.wordpress.com/2010/08/11/how-to-use-teapot-l...

Re: Excel 2.0 – Is there a better visual data model than a grid of cells?

#63

Post by lvl102 »

Spreadsheet program with one-click data frame conversion is basically Colab + Sheets. Not sure why Google isn’t putting resources to flesh out this feature.

Between Sheets, Colab/Kaggle, and Google Maps, Google should be dominating the desktop analytics space. They just need leadership with a bit more imagination. Sometimes I feel like these big techs IMPLICITLY don’t encroach on certain spaces occupied by their competitions. Shadow collusion if you will.

Re: Excel 2.0 – Is there a better visual data model than a grid of cells?

#65

Post by InflexHQ »

I think Excel fails when it comes to other natural types of data such as trees, graphs, even arrays or records. It’s terrible at all of them. It’s not relational, and it’s not inductive, has no sum types, or anything.

What it is, is a very good UI to throw tabular data into and modify.

I have a post about it here: https://inflex.io/blog/whats-wrong-with-the-grid

Re: Excel 2.0 – Is there a better visual data model than a grid of cells?

#66

Post by ebspelman »

slaymaker1907 wrote: post #61
ebspelman wrote: post #56

Even though current VR/AR interfaces are completely useless for Excel or other data-management tasks (no keyboard support, unreliable controls, lack of development interest), I think in the future there are more embodied / spatial treatments of data access that could feel like an improvement on '2D' Excel. As the author mentions, the original moniker for Excel was VisiCalc - a visual calculator. There's no inherent r…

There has been a lot of work looking into 3D visualization, but it really seems like the benefits are pretty minimal compared to the drawbacks. Even 2D visualizations seem to do better when limited to a single spatial dimension for carrying information (i.e., how pie charts are inferior bar charts in almost every way).

I should disclaim that I work on a 3D capture app called Polycam, but in that work I've grown used to the idea that 3D captures are inherently better at conveying some kinds of visual information than photographs are. Like a room with graffiti on the walls. The opposite is also true - 2D photos are way better at sunsets & portraits.

So I guess what I'm saying is that I'd bet there are some undiscovered cases where 3D is going to be better for data representation / manipulation.

Re: Excel 2.0 – Is there a better visual data model than a grid of cells?

#67

Post by gnramires »

AQXt wrote: post #64

Excel is great for simple use cases. For complex problems, you should look at Jupyter notebooks. https://jupyter.org/

I agree, I think it's a natural successor to a spreadsheet for something more complex. You can even have a section with tabular data (i.e. an embedded spreadsheet), which is what spreadsheets excel at, but it meshes very well with the classical programming paradigm.

Re: Excel 2.0 – Is there a better visual data model than a grid of cells?

#68

Post by slaymaker1907 »

nealabq wrote: post #39

Spreadsheet grids are marvelous for presenting many kinds of data relevant to business. Specifically, tabular numerical data (rows of tuples with well-characterized columns). Spreadsheets are great for condensing and summarizing the minute details and aggregates spread across huge numbers of rows, and for highlighting patterns and trends. And there are other very effective ways to present data. Hypertext, Gantt chart…

I don't think programs are necessarily a hierarchy, though that is a useful way to look at them. There are definitely mutually recursive elements, though these are admittedly limited in size of scope. However, most of the problems with looking at programs as hierarchies come from forcing elements to have a single parent containing element. Instead of a tree, you get a lot more flexibility by allowing elements to have multiple parents (so it is still a DAG, but not a tree since a path from root to the element is not necessarily unique).

Re: Excel 2.0 – Is there a better visual data model than a grid of cells?

#69

Post by slaymaker1907 »

ebspelman wrote: post #66
slaymaker1907 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There has been a lot of work looking into 3D visualization, but it really seems like the benefits are pretty minimal compared to the drawbacks. Even 2D visualizations seem to do better when limited to a single spatial dimension for carrying information (i.e., how pie charts are inferior bar charts in almost every way).

I should disclaim that I work on a 3D capture app called Polycam, but in that work I've grown used to the idea that 3D captures are inherently better at conveying some kinds of visual information than photographs are. Like a room with graffiti on the walls. The opposite is also true - 2D photos are way better at sunsets & portraits. So I guess what I'm saying is that I'd bet there are some undiscovered cases where 3D…

That's a great point. I had a VR headset that worked with phone a few years ago, and it was absolutely incredible how 3D still images have the ability to make you feel like you are someplace that you are not, at least compared to 2D still images and video. 3D will certainly give designers more tools to work with in making memorable visualizations which is an important feature for many visualizations.

Re: Excel 2.0 – Is there a better visual data model than a grid of cells?

#70

Post by 1e-9 »

ebspelman wrote: post #56

Even though current VR/AR interfaces are completely useless for Excel or other data-management tasks (no keyboard support, unreliable controls, lack of development interest), I think in the future there are more embodied / spatial treatments of data access that could feel like an improvement on '2D' Excel. As the author mentions, the original moniker for Excel was VisiCalc - a visual calculator. There's no inherent r…

> As the author mentions, the original moniker for Excel was VisiCalc

VisiCalc wasn't actually a moniker for Excel. It was a predecessor. It was the first spreadsheet program, which was made by a different company, VisiCorp, and released in 1979. Excel was developed by Microsoft and released in 1985. Prior to Excel, Microsoft had released an earlier spreadsheet called Multiplan in 1982.

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