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Excel 2.0 – Is there a better visual data model than a grid of cells?

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51–60 of 223 posts

Re: Excel 2.0 – Is there a better visual data model than a grid of cells?

#51

For almost all tasks, yes. But it differs a lot by task. The power of the spreadsheet model is that it is minimally acceptable for a wide array of tasks, not that it is usually optimal.

I think that main strength is familiarity and low learning curve. You can easily build and MVP with a spreadsheet. Understand your data, relations, patterns. The trap occurs later when you need to scale it

Re: Excel 2.0 – Is there a better visual data model than a grid of cells?

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Numbers is deeply underrated.

Last time I used it I believe it just crashed when opening a large CSV file.

Also the case for me with Excel on macOS. The Windows version of Excel, on the other hand, has been a lot more performant and stable for me.

Re: Excel 2.0 – Is there a better visual data model than a grid of cells?

#53
post #20

Excel is seriously killing humanity. No version control, no debugging, brittle support for automation. Excel, to me, is the single most obvious sign that we must get rid of the giant tech monopolies to re-enable innovation in software.

You're interesting when talking about Excel's deficiencies. But you ruin your comment with talk about "killing humanity" and "giant tech monopolies". HN is not a place to get swept away by emotion.

Re: Excel 2.0 – Is there a better visual data model than a grid of cells?

#54
post #33

Thanks for posting! I love the topic - I've written before [1] about how I think spreadsheets are the most popular programming paradigm ever, we just don't talk about it much. I personally think that the evolution of spreadsheets is less about changing the UI, and instead making it possible for spreadsheet users to easily transition to more powerful programming tools in a natural and easy way. So I've spent the past…

> I personally think that the evolution of spreadsheets is less about changing the UI, and instead making it possible for spreadsheet users to easily transition to more powerful programming tools in a natural and easy way. So I've spent the past 2 years building Mito [2]. Following the article idea of spreadsheet as the best paradigm, why you think users should abandon it in favor of other?

Spreadsheets are the best way to represent data, but there is a very long-tail of tasks one might to perform with their data. Requiring all of them to be built into a visual UI pretty much insists you end up with Excel - what feels like 1 billion features, where each user knows I don't think users can/should leave spreadsheets for the tasks spreadsheets make sense for (basic data munching, pivoting, many formulas, etc). But being able to easily transition your spreadsheet to other tools in a easy/native way is a huge win - and why at least half of our users are actually just Python programmers who use Mito because it makes that transition back and forth to spreadsheet/code so easy!

I don't think anyone should abandon tools if they are working for them :-)

Re: Excel 2.0 – Is there a better visual data model than a grid of cells?

#55
HTTPS://ObservableHQ.com is rows of cells where cells can be code or DOM, input widgets. Cells update themselves automatically like spreadsheets. It's is fairly insane what can done and the information content possible with these interactive notebooks that run normal JavaScript (in a non-linear fashion)

https://observablehq.com/@tomlarkworthy/notebooks2021

Re: Excel 2.0 – Is there a better visual data model than a grid of cells?

#56
Even though current VR/AR interfaces are completely useless for Excel or other data-management tasks (no keyboard support, unreliable controls, lack of development interest), I think in the future there are more embodied / spatial treatments of data access that could feel like an improvement on '2D' Excel.

As the author mentions, the original moniker for Excel was VisiCalc - a visual calculator. There's no inherent reason why 3D spatial representation would be a worse medium for a calculator.

Re: Excel 2.0 – Is there a better visual data model than a grid of cells?

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this just a programming problem? Build an application that accepts the data, produces the result, and has a GUI for managing all exceptions? I've build many of these things.

> Isn't this just a programming problem? What seems to be described is a UI design problem. Once the UI is designed, it also needs programmed in some form, but that doesn't seem to be the problem, just a not-particularly-interesting task required in the implementation. Not all problems that require programming are programming problems. (In fact, most are not.)

I meant "isn't this a problem that requires software development?"

There are always complaints that Excel is a terrible solution to some very specific set of repeated tasks. Every few months, there's a posting about how all we need is a "Better Excel" that would perfectly solve everyone's totally unique 12-step problem.

Such a tool is never going to exist. Thankfully we can build tools specifically for those problems when generic tools aren't good enough. Not every problem is worth a programming solution; there's only so much time and money and paying a bunch of people to cut and paste might just be the better option.

Re: Excel 2.0 – Is there a better visual data model than a grid of cells?

#59
post #33

Thanks for posting! I love the topic - I've written before [1] about how I think spreadsheets are the most popular programming paradigm ever, we just don't talk about it much. I personally think that the evolution of spreadsheets is less about changing the UI, and instead making it possible for spreadsheet users to easily transition to more powerful programming tools in a natural and easy way. So I've spent the past…

> I personally think that the evolution of spreadsheets is less about changing the UI, and instead making it possible for spreadsheet users to easily transition to more powerful programming tools in a natural and easy way. So I've spent the past 2 years building Mito [2]. Following the article idea of spreadsheet as the best paradigm, why you think users should abandon it in favor of other?

I always encourage and applaud efforts to improve the stats quo, I suspect however that if there were a more efficient way for power users to quickly interact with data we would have found it by now.

In fact, to interact with large sets of data we have found it and it’s SQL. Again for power users. You data geeks are of course an exception and have a completely different set of tools.

Re: Excel 2.0 – Is there a better visual data model than a grid of cells?

#60

Even though current VR/AR interfaces are completely useless for Excel or other data-management tasks (no keyboard support, unreliable controls, lack of development interest), I think in the future there are more embodied / spatial treatments of data access that could feel like an improvement on '2D' Excel. As the author mentions, the original moniker for Excel was VisiCalc - a visual calculator. There's no inherent r…

Check Visidata.
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