That's why really well designed abstractions are so important, and leaky abstractions are a nightmare.
Developers spend most of their time figuring the system out
361–370 of 418 posts
Re: Developers spend most of their time figuring the system out
#362Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you worked at a place that did 100% pair programming, anyone who couldn’t succeed at pair programming would be filtered out. Personally, whether or not I can do pair programming has a lot to do who I’m working with, what I’m doing, and what kind of day I’m having. The same thing goes for test-driven development. I have ADHD and short-term memory issues. This causes me to work by feel on some tasks because I don’t…
Have an upvote from me and thank you so much for this comment. This describes perfectly my own state of mind. I've noticed having problems communicating my thoughts about my code in meetings, but simply could not point a finger at the exact reasons. But this describes it perfectly. If I may bother you, could you answer two questions? - Were you officially diagnosed with ADHD. I never went to a doctor, but in the last…
> Were you officially diagnosed with ADHD. I never went to a doctor, but in the last years I had growing assumptions I might have ADHD or Asperger (or both).
Diagnosed bipolar 1 recently. But I was diagnosed as ADD as a child thirty years ago. ADHD is a popular addition to the standard Bipolar feature set.
> Do you follow certain strategies which made communicating your thoughts and ideas easier and/or better?
Not in a way I can easily teach. I learned my social skills late and had to study people to understand them. I take all of the inputs and outputs of a known person and mentally visualize what their internal state is. Then I play out how different phrasing will be received.
Whatever part of the brain normally handles social interaction is broken in mine, so I use logical thinking to run other people's brains in a virtual machine.
Re: Developers spend most of their time figuring the system out
#363People always struggle or avoid doing pair programming, and people always think it means that the developers' time now costs twice as much, but this is a total lie. When I worked at a place that did 100% pair programming with rotation every day, a new developer could hit the ground flying . Sitting next to someone who knows the system and can answer your question immediately means you get up to speed millions of time…
writing documentation is even better, only have to explain something once.
Re: Developers spend most of their time figuring the system out
#364Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks for posting this. Yesterday I came across a job position on a company that does 100% mob(!) programming everyday¹. This means every programmer works 6 hours per day on a zoom call with 2 other programmers, rotating roles between typist, navigator and support every ten minutes. I couldn't help but feel my soul being slowly crushed as I read further on their description of the daily activities. Needless to say,…
Wow. I recommend everyone read through that page. Some may love it. Obviously the bosses at SOCi do. For me it is a dystopian nightmare. To summarize: there are three roles, Typist, Navigator, and Support. The Typist is not allowed to think . They are explicitly described as a "smart input device". For the most part, only the Navigator is allowed to think. They tell the Typist exactly what to type, and the Typist mus…
Christ almighty, that sounds more similar to one of those inane "team building" exercises that they make you do on corporate retreats rather than actual work.
Re: Developers spend most of their time figuring the system out
#365Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks for posting this. Yesterday I came across a job position on a company that does 100% mob(!) programming everyday¹. This means every programmer works 6 hours per day on a zoom call with 2 other programmers, rotating roles between typist, navigator and support every ten minutes. I couldn't help but feel my soul being slowly crushed as I read further on their description of the daily activities. Needless to say,…
Very bluntly put: full-time pair and/or mob programming is for and by neurotypical extroverts. People for who their job is a social activity, for who deep work and deep focus on their own are mostly foreign concepts. I mean to each their own, but companies - and fellow developers - need to stop forcing others into their way of working. Having One True Way of doing things is always bad. But yes, this may mean there wi…
I'm not sure why a company needs to work in a certain way just because some people don't like to work in that way. It is like saying a java shop needs to use c# as well just because some people are more comfortable with c#. No. They don't. It is just fine for developers that want to write in c# to find a company that is invested in a culture around doing c#.
This isn't just true with programming. If you like to do things solo, then don't become an airline pilot since they always work in pairs. There are plenty of other places you can work as a solo pilot. Airline pilots work in pairs because, for that type of work, there are advantages to doing so. If a company wants to "go all in" on pair or mob programming, there may be very good reasons for doing so and trying to have a split culture doesn't always work.
Re: Developers spend most of their time figuring the system out
#366Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you worked at a place that did 100% pair programming, anyone who couldn’t succeed at pair programming would be filtered out. Personally, whether or not I can do pair programming has a lot to do who I’m working with, what I’m doing, and what kind of day I’m having. The same thing goes for test-driven development. I have ADHD and short-term memory issues. This causes me to work by feel on some tasks because I don’t…
(Note: I am not doubting in any way that you’re great at what you do and highly successful. Nor am I downplaying any difficulties and struggles you have had.) My genuine question - Is it possible to have ADHD and be a coder? It’s just that coding requires so much focussed attention over long periods. If you are enjoying a career as a coder I’m inclined to think either the ADHD is mild or treated very effectively? Or…
ADHD is quite badly named imo. It's not so much a deficit of attention but a disregulation. If you are interested in something then you can invoke an almost obsessive fixation on the task (hyperfocus I believe some people call it) which lends itself well to coding in certain conditions.
Re: Developers spend most of their time figuring the system out
#367People always struggle or avoid doing pair programming, and people always think it means that the developers' time now costs twice as much, but this is a total lie. When I worked at a place that did 100% pair programming with rotation every day, a new developer could hit the ground flying . Sitting next to someone who knows the system and can answer your question immediately means you get up to speed millions of time…
I wouldn't call pairing up with a new hire "pair programming" in the strict sense of the term. That's just regular onboarding/mentorship.
Re: Developers spend most of their time figuring the system out
#368Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem with abstractions is that it seems that not making leaky abstractions is difficult for most people (most people making these abstractions don't know about the concept of an abstraction leakage in the first place) Software engineering is extremely difficult
That they don't even teach 'leaky abstractions' is a bit rich, and as you point out it's hard. And it's not 'hard for most people' it's hard for everyone. Every API is leaky and inconsistent, it's all a matter of degrees. Concise documentation is essential. I'm reading about a Java API for the 5th time and only now just 'getting it' fairy clearly, it's not rocket science it just needs to be explained properly. Java '…
ahhhhhhhhhhhhh `g d` ;_;
Re: Developers spend most of their time figuring the system out
#369More on topic, I've experimented some with Glamorous Toolkit, and I really liked what I saw of it, but (somewhat ironically), I need to dive more into its own model and understand it before I can use it for anything real.
For example, I couldn't find docs on its display stack, so when I wanted to display a graph but with images instead of text for the nodes, I got stuck. Sure, I could dive into the code and eventually get something that worked, but I wouldn't be sure I was coding to the API or to the implementation. It crossed over to "playing around with this tool" to "have to do some real work to understand", so I ended up dropping it.
Re: Developers spend most of their time figuring the system out
#370Earlier quoted context omitted.
I guarantee you, my mind does not work like yours and I need to translate. If you want me to explain code as I see it, I'll start in the middle of a function, where you have no context what it happening and jump to another line of code that is two functions removed. Repeat. You will have absolutely no idea what's going on as I flip through tab after tab of code. My brain does not like doing things in order. I have to…
It sounds like working on understanding your thought processes would be useful practice for people who want to learn to think and understand flexibly. You seem to be explaining things from the point of view that your different way of thinking is a problem for others rather than an opportunity for them to grow and learn. That's kind of odd... Personally I think it would be very interesting to work through code in that…
That's because I spent a lot of time sitting down to explain how I think clearly while not overloading the reader with chaos.
If you'll indulge me, I'll try to explain using part of a story I wrote as an example. (It is a furry story, hence the animal body language.)
——
## My explanation
“You went grocery shopping?”
“About two hours from now.”
“You can relax,” he says after he sets the kettle down. His ears perk up, staring at me intently, and I steel myself. “I took the week off.”
“I didn’t expect you to be up so early.”
Then I notice the grocery bag on the table. Breakfast probably being oatmeal or toast; we were out of eggs.
“You okay?”
——
Who is speaking at each section of dialog?
1, 1, 2, 2, 1, 1
——
## Original
“Yeah,” he replies sheepishly. “You got three minutes to get dressed while I get your coffee.”
“You can relax,” I say after he sets the kettle down. His ears perk up, staring at me intently, and I steel myself. “I took the week off.”
He breathes out slowly, but his tail gets more frazzled. “And you were going to tell me this when?” he says with restraint.
“About two hours from now.” It’s my turn to look sheepish. “I didn’t expect you to be up so early.”
“Thought I’d make you breakfast.”
Breakfast probably being oatmeal or toast; we were out of eggs. Then I notice the grocery bag on the table.
“You went grocery shopping? Did you take your anxiety medication?”
——
Bonus round: What does “You okay?” from the previous section refer to?
There was a minor accident in the kitchen that let to this discussion.
——
This is a bit contrived and I mixed things up more than usual because understanding creative writing on paper is easier than explaining code over zoom.