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Developers spend most of their time figuring the system out

lepiter.io

291–300 of 418 posts

Re: Developers spend most of their time figuring the system out

#291
post #19

People always struggle or avoid doing pair programming, and people always think it means that the developers' time now costs twice as much, but this is a total lie. When I worked at a place that did 100% pair programming with rotation every day, a new developer could hit the ground flying . Sitting next to someone who knows the system and can answer your question immediately means you get up to speed millions of time…

That just can't be more productive over the long term, though. Lets say, hypothetically, that you can use it to ramp any programmer up to being an expert on the system. Maybe that takes two months? Or even six months? Once you have a team full of experts, you're now spending two programmer hours to do every bit of work that could have been done in one programmer hour by a single expert. Unless you have such incredibl…

> Once you have a team full of experts, you're now spending two programmer hours to do every bit of work that could have been done in one programmer hour by a single expert.

You’re forgetting that it’s impossible for any one person to keep all the details of even a medium sized code base in their head.

I imagine the initial “planning” phase of implementing a change would benefit heavily from pair programming because it avoids the issue where you write a bunch of code to find out that it doesn’t work because of this one detail that you forgot.

For the learning (“knowledge transfer”) aspect, though, I think you’re right that it’s possible to reach a point where writing the actual code (not the design) as a pair is not worth it.

Re: Developers spend most of their time figuring the system out

#292
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for posting this. Yesterday I came across a job position on a company that does 100% mob(!) programming everyday¹. This means every programmer works 6 hours per day on a zoom call with 2 other programmers, rotating roles between typist, navigator and support every ten minutes. I couldn't help but feel my soul being slowly crushed as I read further on their description of the daily activities. Needless to say,…

tangential question: I'm 37 and think I have ADHD. My partner thinks I do, and when I read posts like this I deeply identify with them. What should I do? Get a diagnosis? My ignorance thinks the only course after that is drugs which doesn't sound that appealing..

Why so scared of meds? From what I hear ADHD meds do work for a lot.

Re: Developers spend most of their time figuring the system out

#293
post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you worked at a place that did 100% pair programming, anyone who couldn’t succeed at pair programming would be filtered out. Personally, whether or not I can do pair programming has a lot to do who I’m working with, what I’m doing, and what kind of day I’m having. The same thing goes for test-driven development. I have ADHD and short-term memory issues. This causes me to work by feel on some tasks because I don’t…

(Note: I am not doubting in any way that you’re great at what you do and highly successful. Nor am I downplaying any difficulties and struggles you have had.) My genuine question - Is it possible to have ADHD and be a coder? It’s just that coding requires so much focussed attention over long periods. If you are enjoying a career as a coder I’m inclined to think either the ADHD is mild or treated very effectively? Or…

Sure. I've been diagnosed with very severe ADD and I've been programming since I was 8 (now 34), professionally since ~18. I took medication for ADD but have since stopped, as it basically caused me to sit for 9 hours and work with no breaks or food. I still have plenty of issues related to ADD, but I'm good at what I do all the same.

It has way bigger consequences outside of work for me. Things which you are very passionate about are easier to focus on than things you are not, regardless of AD(H)D.

Re: Developers spend most of their time figuring the system out

#294
post #19

People always struggle or avoid doing pair programming, and people always think it means that the developers' time now costs twice as much, but this is a total lie. When I worked at a place that did 100% pair programming with rotation every day, a new developer could hit the ground flying . Sitting next to someone who knows the system and can answer your question immediately means you get up to speed millions of time…

If you worked at a place that did 100% pair programming, anyone who couldn’t succeed at pair programming would be filtered out. Personally, whether or not I can do pair programming has a lot to do who I’m working with, what I’m doing, and what kind of day I’m having. The same thing goes for test-driven development. I have ADHD and short-term memory issues. This causes me to work by feel on some tasks because I don’t…

Thanks for wording this so well. I notice it when a coworker asks for help, I usually have little idea how to help them when looking at the problem together, unless it's something obvious. But when I look at the code by myself, my mind is somehow free to explore it in "the natural way", and the answers may come quickly.

Re: Developers spend most of their time figuring the system out

#295
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for posting this. Yesterday I came across a job position on a company that does 100% mob(!) programming everyday¹. This means every programmer works 6 hours per day on a zoom call with 2 other programmers, rotating roles between typist, navigator and support every ten minutes. I couldn't help but feel my soul being slowly crushed as I read further on their description of the daily activities. Needless to say,…

tangential question: I'm 37 and think I have ADHD. My partner thinks I do, and when I read posts like this I deeply identify with them. What should I do? Get a diagnosis? My ignorance thinks the only course after that is drugs which doesn't sound that appealing..

I got diagnosed at 35. Definitely do it -- it's been life changing for me.

But don't stop with a diagnosis, get some coaching from an ADHD specialist. There's so much more to it than just attention -- emotional dysregulation, time-blindess, executive function impairment.

It's a whole thing. But with support you can cope with most of it. And most importantly learn to separate the condition from.your character.

Re: Developers spend most of their time figuring the system out

#296
post #19

People always struggle or avoid doing pair programming, and people always think it means that the developers' time now costs twice as much, but this is a total lie. When I worked at a place that did 100% pair programming with rotation every day, a new developer could hit the ground flying . Sitting next to someone who knows the system and can answer your question immediately means you get up to speed millions of time…

Having been on both the knowledgeable and noob side of this "pair programming onboarding", I find it to be fantastic. When furiously googling / grepping around the code to self-onboard, it is so difficult to see the bigger picture of how the system works; if someone can explain the architecture to you, you become much more self sufficient, very quickly too. On the "mentor" side of such pair programming, it is extreme…

> if someone can explain the architecture to you

This should happen anyway - pairing or no. What kind of onboarding are people doing where architecture overview isn’t a part of it?

Re: Developers spend most of their time figuring the system out

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See also Bill Thurston's commentary on the nature of mathematical knowledge: "mathematical understanding does not expand in a monotone direction. Our understanding frequently deteriorates as well. There are several obvious mechanisms of decay. The experts in a subject retire and die, or simply move on to other subjects and forget. Mathematics is commonly explained and recorded in symbolic and concrete forms that are…

I don't really buy that. Mathematics is by far the biggest and longest running open source project on this planet and we are absolutely able to traverse it by centuries or millenia. This works across languages and cultures. Mathematics is built on a small set of axioms and everything else is defined on top of it and proved. Your comment makes it sound like there is some magic knowledge linked to arcane symbols, when…

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