Then, not too long afterward, they forget everything.
Developers spend most of their time figuring the system out
231–240 of 418 posts
Re: Developers spend most of their time figuring the system out
#232Earlier quoted context omitted.
See also Bill Thurston's commentary on the nature of mathematical knowledge: "mathematical understanding does not expand in a monotone direction. Our understanding frequently deteriorates as well. There are several obvious mechanisms of decay. The experts in a subject retire and die, or simply move on to other subjects and forget. Mathematics is commonly explained and recorded in symbolic and concrete forms that are…
I don't really buy that. Mathematics is by far the biggest and longest running open source project on this planet and we are absolutely able to traverse it by centuries or millenia. This works across languages and cultures. Mathematics is built on a small set of axioms and everything else is defined on top of it and proved. Your comment makes it sound like there is some magic knowledge linked to arcane symbols, when…
> Mathematics is by far the biggest and longest running open source project on this planet and we are absolutely able to traverse it by centuries or millenia. This works across languages and cultures.
This goes against what I understand about mathematics. I've tried to break it into a few sections.
Open source:
Things in mathematics once defined, tend not to change, even when changing would be beneficial.
Open source software tends to be a bit more malleable, but even long running things that can't change for fear of breaking things like POSIX or the X Window System end up getting alternatives that the industry slowly turns towards.
But mathematics just stays stuck. Multiple subfields will end up using the same glyph to mean two different things and when those subfields intersect it gets very bad very fast.
Even small quality-of-life fixes never end up getting accepted into use.
Here's a great example by 3Blue1Brown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sULa9Lc4pck
Another example (if you're interested in going down a bit of a rabbit hole) is the history of vector algebra vs quarternions. We ended up going with vector algebra, then learned that quarternions were actually better, but we continued to teach / and be taught vector algebra.
> we are absolutely able to traverse it by centuries or millenia
Well, this seems easy to disprove since knowledge does get lost and things keep getting rediscovered.
For example, Calculus was rediscovered multiple times: - Archimedes (at least part of it with his method of exhaustion) - Leibnitz / Newton (separately) - and recently: medical doctors rediscovering integration and publishing papers on it in the 90s.
Other famouse examples would be Fast Fourier Transform, and perhaps Fermat's Last Theorem
Re: Developers spend most of their time figuring the system out
#233In my experience, the biggest obstacle in understanding the system is that the underlying business process is not properly documented. A technical system is only as good as the business system it's implementing. Knowing the business process makes it much easier to understand the technical implementation, especially if you're trying to find bugs in the technical system since you can more easily see the mismatch betwee…
I disagree with this (sort of) for a couple of reasons: 1. For one, I think it's hard enough just to keep technical documentation up to date. Keeping separate business process docs up to date with code feels like it would be a collosal task. 2. That said, most software at least starts with some amount of requirements (whether that be a formal spec or a bunch of Jira epics). I have rarely seen any engineer start first…
Some industries are subject to control audits. So documenting the processes serves two purposes.
If the business doesn't know their process well enough to document or explain it, don't you think there will be water effort and rework, especially for edge cases?
Re: Developers spend most of their time figuring the system out
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks for posting this. Yesterday I came across a job position on a company that does 100% mob(!) programming everyday¹. This means every programmer works 6 hours per day on a zoom call with 2 other programmers, rotating roles between typist, navigator and support every ten minutes. I couldn't help but feel my soul being slowly crushed as I read further on their description of the daily activities. Needless to say,…
tangential question: I'm 37 and think I have ADHD. My partner thinks I do, and when I read posts like this I deeply identify with them. What should I do? Get a diagnosis? My ignorance thinks the only course after that is drugs which doesn't sound that appealing..
Getting a diagnosis does not mean having to medicate. If it’s not for you, you can get non-medical forms of help. Not help as in you need help but rather help to make your life easier.
If you think you may have ADHD, definitely worth it to understand more about ADHD and a diagnosis will help those close to you to understand your behavior.
Re: Developers spend most of their time figuring the system out
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
As someone also with ADHD, I can relate in a lot of these respects. The idea of doing pair programming every fucking day would ruin me. I really don't mind collaborating or discussing with people, because I think that's what our brains are great for, but not in the pair programming sense, and not every day. In my last job, I was very open about this, but my manager seemed to basically brush it off and pull up a chair…
> By chance, do you struggle with eating sounds in offices to the point where you panic? Not to be rude, but the stereotype of the software developer is fast becoming one of fragility. A low wage worker spending their day working a fryer or a guy at a construction site would be thrilled to have such working conditions to where their biggest problem is someone eating too closely while making $100k+ per year in the air…
Only if the person in question is merely annoyed by such sounds.
For some people, it’s quite literally perceived as someone’s kid screaming next to them.
What people forget is, we don’t have a choice. People who have a disability will have to deal with it no matter what job they do.
It’s like yelling at a person in a wheelchair to stop bitching about the lack of an elevator in a three-story office building because they have a “good job” and getting up the stairs isn’t a big deal because you do it every day.
This analogy may sound like an exaggeration, because there is no way you can comprehend something so minor and trivial could be a problem. And that’s kind of the point. It’s extremely difficult to understand something you haven’t experienced.
Most people jump to the conclusion that these things aren’t a big deal and they’ve seen people lie about it to manipulate people. Therefore, a person claiming to have a disability that isn’t obvious is lying to get things they don’t deserve.
Not everyone has a fully working brain or body. :(
Re: Developers spend most of their time figuring the system out
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
what better way to ensure you get CS degreed ppl for positions that legally can't require one than to reproduce the "group project" model as an organizational principle?
In what situations (and jurisdictions) would an employee be legally prevented from requiring a CS degree?
Most, as far as I'm aware, since it's not required to do the work in almost all cases.
Re: Developers spend most of their time figuring the system out
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
As someone also with ADHD, I can relate in a lot of these respects. The idea of doing pair programming every fucking day would ruin me. I really don't mind collaborating or discussing with people, because I think that's what our brains are great for, but not in the pair programming sense, and not every day. In my last job, I was very open about this, but my manager seemed to basically brush it off and pull up a chair…
> By chance, do you struggle with eating sounds in offices to the point where you panic? Not to be rude, but the stereotype of the software developer is fast becoming one of fragility. A low wage worker spending their day working a fryer or a guy at a construction site would be thrilled to have such working conditions to where their biggest problem is someone eating too closely while making $100k+ per year in the air…
I’m going to assume good intent and resist posting a snarky response.
Why is it so terrible for anyone to want to work in a specific environment that they find comfortable? Why do you think that the ability to work as a fryer or construction worker is somehow “better”? Why are people who have the capacity to either ignore or tolerate bad working conditions and continue working considered morally superior?
As human beings we’re all so different and unique in our ways and preferences. We are at a stage in our evolution where we can provide people the kind of environment that they prefer to work in; even let people choose the kind of body and gender they think works best for them. Why is that so bad? Can’t we just let go of the toxic masculinity involved in such comparisons?
I am not even touching on the nature of knowledge work itself which has very little to do with physical toughness and everything with being in environments conducive to problem solving. Please just stop with these rubbish admonishments.
Re: Developers spend most of their time figuring the system out
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't mind pair programming but I don't have the physical/mental capacity to do it for a full work day. I can only imagine how exhausted I'd get after several weeks of it. When I do pair, I only work for 3 or 4 hours that day total.
Pair programming is one of the smartest inventions in this field, but I wouldn't dream of advocating it for this reason. The best model would be four hours of pair programming and another four of paying those programmers to take a long lunch, a nap and a walk. Those 4 keyboard-hours would probably be as productive as 16 keyboard-hours of the same programmers working independently for a full day, if not more. And unli…
I don't disagree, but like all business initiatives it's really hard to convince my boss's boss, that I should be able to sign off and work half the amount of hours for the same paycheck.
So we have to "play" the game of looking busy and appearing productive for appearances.
Re: Developers spend most of their time figuring the system out
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks for posting this. Yesterday I came across a job position on a company that does 100% mob(!) programming everyday¹. This means every programmer works 6 hours per day on a zoom call with 2 other programmers, rotating roles between typist, navigator and support every ten minutes. I couldn't help but feel my soul being slowly crushed as I read further on their description of the daily activities. Needless to say,…
tangential question: I'm 37 and think I have ADHD. My partner thinks I do, and when I read posts like this I deeply identify with them. What should I do? Get a diagnosis? My ignorance thinks the only course after that is drugs which doesn't sound that appealing..
I’d suggest trying the meds before you form an option on them. I take my ADHD meds every day just the same as somebody else takes heart medicine or wears glasses. It just is what it is.
And note: it does sometimes make you feel like cheating or something… you will have to arrive at your own conclusions. Suggest a good therapist to help deal with it.
Re: Developers spend most of their time figuring the system out
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks for posting this. Yesterday I came across a job position on a company that does 100% mob(!) programming everyday¹. This means every programmer works 6 hours per day on a zoom call with 2 other programmers, rotating roles between typist, navigator and support every ten minutes. I couldn't help but feel my soul being slowly crushed as I read further on their description of the daily activities. Needless to say,…
tangential question: I'm 37 and think I have ADHD. My partner thinks I do, and when I read posts like this I deeply identify with them. What should I do? Get a diagnosis? My ignorance thinks the only course after that is drugs which doesn't sound that appealing..
You have lots of options. Meds always sound unappealing but they can be a huge boon for some. CBT can be very useful pretty quickly without any sort of drug, but it’s not for everyone. Executive Functioning coaches (not “executive coaches!”) can be useful for practical work/life organization strategies. Date around with EF coaches because many people with vastly different qualification levels work under that name.
Diagnosis can be emotionally helpful— they’re often done by neuropsych evaluation specialists but you should talk to a psychologist or psychiatrist first because evaluation is a few grand, most insurances won’t cover it if you don’t seem very likely to be diagnosed including DSM-V criteria like having significant life changing symptoms before age 12. The testing itself is a few hours of tests designed to push you to your limits for things like working memory, impulsivity, and reaction time. (I was waiting for the tester to say “Reaction time is a factor in this, so please pay attention.”) Parts got frustrating but not like Megaman frustrating.
Depression and/or anxiety are commodities in 80% of those afflicted, so that’s worth paying attention to also.