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The Beatle Who Got Away

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Re: The Beatle Who Got Away

#81

Post by WalterBright »

olivermarks wrote: post #75
WalterBright wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except The Monkees couldn't play. They had to learn to play & sing. Their songs were written by others.

It's not that the Monkees 'couldn't play' - that show biz act was selected for visual appeal while management had the Wrecking Crew studio a list create the pop songs. It was brilliantly successful business. The Beatles were arguably an earlier incarnation of this - a v rough and ready covers band propelled to 'stardom' by Epstein and heavily produced, notably by George Martin. Just like Jimmy Miller's shaping of the…

All bands need help in one form or another. The Beatles understood this, and would get help as needed (even Eric Clapton contributed). Michael Jackson got Quincy Jones to produce his breakout albums. The Monkees believed they didn't need help, and could do it all on their own. "Headquarters" was the result. It's a very weak album.

In my not-so-humble opinion, the Monkees were given the greatest opportunity dropped in their lap, and completely muffed it. They just weren't smart enough to compete with The Beatles.

Re: The Beatle Who Got Away

#82

Post by olivermarks »

WalterBright wrote: post #81
olivermarks wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that the Monkees 'couldn't play' - that show biz act was selected for visual appeal while management had the Wrecking Crew studio a list create the pop songs. It was brilliantly successful business. The Beatles were arguably an earlier incarnation of this - a v rough and ready covers band propelled to 'stardom' by Epstein and heavily produced, notably by George Martin. Just like Jimmy Miller's shaping of the…

All bands need help in one form or another. The Beatles understood this, and would get help as needed (even Eric Clapton contributed). Michael Jackson got Quincy Jones to produce his breakout albums. The Monkees believed they didn't need help, and could do it all on their own. "Headquarters" was the result. It's a very weak album. In my not-so-humble opinion, the Monkees were given the greatest opportunity dropped in…

The thing is the Beatles actually wrote their material - the Monkees sang tin pan alley tunes written by Carole King et al and played by the wrecking crew. They never had management or support to do anything creative themselves except mug for the cameras. Show biz vs musicians... They did launch a lot of careers though, like Louie Shelton's https://youtu.be/7L6Vin-5188

Re: The Beatle Who Got Away

#83

Post by amyjess »

LanceH wrote: post #51
the-dude wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> any attractive boy band with a catchy beat No need to beat around the bush : surely you mean the Stones.

Really he means the 1000 other bands that weren't the Stones or the Beatles. Those two have large catalogs that are played today and will be played 100 years from now.

she

But my use of the phrase "boy band*" was a mistake, because I was thinking of Elvis more than anyone else.

Though I do have to wonder what would've happened if Herman's Hermits or some other Merseybeat band came to the US in 1964 instead of the Beatles.

Re: The Beatle Who Got Away

#87

Post by dredmorbius »

brtkdotse wrote: post #63
dsr_ wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. The biggest thing I took away from it was how unplanned everything was. I can no longer listen to a Beatles album and ask "why did they decide to do this, and then that?" as I used to. Now I know that nobody had a plan: they had an infinite series of accidents and then edited -- or not.

It's almost like there's some truth to the "Trying to make dozens of shitty pots actually produces better pots than trying to make a single perfect pot". Iteration eats inspiration for breakfast. https://austinkleon.com/2020/12/10/quantity-leads-to-quality...

In a winner-takes-all game, there's iteration, but there's also a single top act, and a tremendous combination of skill, luck, and manipulation in ending up on top.

It's not as if the team making the most pots always wins. Though the winner often makes a lot of pots.

Re: The Beatle Who Got Away

#89

Post by vr46 »

darkhorse13 wrote: post #38
vr46 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you’re saying that you think John Lennon was the last one to be considered a musical genius?

No he is clearly saying that George Harrison is the last one, because he genuinely hit his peak after the Beatles disbanded (in my opinion).

I got that - but George wasn’t “just” the rhythm guitarist, he was the lead. On top of that, playing rhythm guitar is far more important than lead :)
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