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Computer virus hits US Predator and Reaper drone fleet

arstechnica.com

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Re: Computer virus hits US Predator and Reaper drone fleet

#91

Post by [deleted] »

jfoutz wrote: post #71
sadfasdfads wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference between the military and the neighborhood computers you used to assist with are the military has to deal with a plethora of entry points for viruses, and can't scrub every USB thumb drive that is at home rather than at the office. I get the feeling that you've not been doing this for 10-12 years yet. Am I right?

It seems pretty trivial to me just to string the cabling into a lockbox with the computer inside to prevent people from screwing around with your ports. That said, i'm not in charge of physical security of anything. I'm sure the guys with missile launching computers figure anybody that can get to the secure terminal is trustworthy.

[deleted]

Re: Computer virus hits US Predator and Reaper drone fleet

#92

Post by pavel_lishin »

rdl wrote: post #15
JonnieCache wrote: post #11

Like hugh says, this doesn't add up at all. “We keep wiping it off, and it keeps coming back,” says a source familiar with the network infection, one of three that told Danger Room about the virus. “We think it’s benign. But we just don’t know.” C'mon. You're the military. "It just keeps coming back?" So you decide to do a press release about it? Please. I wouldn't have whined like that when I was de-malwareing neigh…

There are hundreds of thousands of machines and millions of removable drives. Tracking down every last instance of a piece of malware and then dealing with it is quite hard at that scale. Usually they fall back on policy ("no usb/removable drives") They're handicapped by a need AND compulsion to use contractors for everything. Actual government employees didn't build drones; they were all developed and in many cases…

> Tracking down every last instance of a piece of malware and then dealing with it is quite hard at that scale.

Sure, it's hard. But it's the fucking military. Figure it out.

Re: Computer virus hits US Predator and Reaper drone fleet

#93

Post by brown9-2 »

ajays wrote: post #84

So all that terrorists have to do is commandeer a drone (thanks to this virus) and then they can rain terror anywhere they want? This is scary.

That's a bit like saying all a terrorist would need to do to seize control of an ICBM is to infect the missile base with a virus. It's not that easy.

Re: Computer virus hits US Predator and Reaper drone fleet

#94

Post by rdtsc »

JonnieCache wrote: post #11

Like hugh says, this doesn't add up at all. “We keep wiping it off, and it keeps coming back,” says a source familiar with the network infection, one of three that told Danger Room about the virus. “We think it’s benign. But we just don’t know.” C'mon. You're the military. "It just keeps coming back?" So you decide to do a press release about it? Please. I wouldn't have whined like that when I was de-malwareing neigh…

Are you so surprised? Have you worked with the military security and computer specialists? There are some good people but there lots of HBGary types...

Re: Computer virus hits US Predator and Reaper drone fleet

#96

Post by noonespecial »

teej wrote: post #89
Bud wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how I can be any more clear here: If they are not smart enough to keep malware off of what should be the most secure systems around, perhaps they shouldn't be building the fricking FLYING REMOTE-CONTROL DEATH MACHINES for a while, until they can figure out the basics. Capisce, guys?

I am totally with you. If software is going to operate deadly weapons, it sure as hell better be secure. But you are glossing over a LOT of detail here. The military doesn't work like Apple: they don't design, oversee, or directly control the construction of the hardware they use. And they shouldn't - the government is woefully inefficient at building products, that's what corporations are good at. Here's the situati…

Perhaps they shouldn't use a platform that runs Norton in the first place?

I suspect that under it all, you'll find an unpatched XP or even Win2000.

Re: Computer virus hits US Predator and Reaper drone fleet

#97

Post by rdl »

burgerbrain wrote: post #79
phillmv wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's not that hard. eye roll

Bespoke hardware for government agencies with unlimited budgets is nothing new.

I think for single-purpose machines (like "control a UAV"), custom hardware makes a lot of sense, even for commercial operations. Unfortunately custom hardware usually ends up being a Windows box in a weird case, with some buttons connected over...USB.

A requirement that all components of the TCB be FIPS 140-2 level 3+ for anything which is routinely used in combat operations would please me, I think. Right now that's just for the crypto modules themselves.

Re: Computer virus hits US Predator and Reaper drone fleet

#98

Post by sadfasdfads »

jlarocco wrote: post #33
misterbwong wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow can anyone confirm this? I'm surprised that the drones themselves are running windows. If so, I presume it's win CE or a custom variant of?

The way it works is some AF guy in Nevada remotely controls the drones flying half way across the world. My guess is it's not the drones themselves running Windows, but the consoles used to communicate with the drones. It makes sense. AF guy gets to work, plugs in his USB drive filled with music and pulls up the drone control program... Though, now that I think about it, I would be disappointed, but not entirely surp…

"The way it works is some AF guy in Nevada remotely controls the drones flying half way across the world."

Not entirely true. They (can and do) use closer locations: http://www.military.com/news/article/report-secret-drone-bas...

Re: Computer virus hits US Predator and Reaper drone fleet

#99

Post by rdl »

misterbwong wrote: post #18
rdl wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's funny. It's Windows. Very little Unix anywhere in the DoD over the past few years on new systems; it's mainly legacy, or embedded in products they purchase. There are definitely some Unix server deployments within DoD even now, but they're few and far between. Blue Screen of Death and all.

Wow can anyone confirm this? I'm surprised that the drones themselves are running windows. If so, I presume it's win CE or a custom variant of?

The control systems run XP, Vista, or maybe Windows 7 (not sure about 7 yet). This is true of almost all military desktops, and all office automation servers, and most specialized servers (well, Windows Server 2003/2008).

I'm not sure what OS is on the aircraft; I think it's probably a RTOS for flight control and possibly separate processors (running whatever) on a bus for sensor packages. A lot of UAVs have interchangeable sensors, and sometimes a special camera, electronics package, etc. costs more than the airframe, is developed independently, etc.

There are tens (hundreds worldwide?) of UAV platforms in the US military, ranging from tiny little throwable tactical systems up through almost U2-sized "real aircraft, minus a pilot" like Global Hawk.

Re: Computer virus hits US Predator and Reaper drone fleet

#100

Post by javert »

pcottle wrote: post #72
jlarocco wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way it works is some AF guy in Nevada remotely controls the drones flying half way across the world. My guess is it's not the drones themselves running Windows, but the consoles used to communicate with the drones. It makes sense. AF guy gets to work, plugs in his USB drive filled with music and pulls up the drone control program... Though, now that I think about it, I would be disappointed, but not entirely surp…

No modern UAV has hardware capable of running an entire Windows installation. Think of arduino boards; those things can control huge robotics systems and they are very simple (and thus simple to debug). If you're designing a robot from the ground-up, why would you scale all the way to Windows? No one is going to be playing minesweeper inside the plane

No modern UAV has hardware capable of running an entire Windows installation.

I highly, highly doubt that you're right about this. If you happen to be right, you won't be for long. It might be that nobody wants to run Windows, but there is clear motivation, as well as hardware and software technology, to have a full-scale OS on an advanced UAV.

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