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Computer virus hits US Predator and Reaper drone fleet

arstechnica.com

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Re: Computer virus hits US Predator and Reaper drone fleet

#71

Post by jfoutz »

sadfasdfads wrote: post #44
JonnieCache wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'm ever in charge of a PC capable of firing guns at people, then at a bare minimum I would disable the USB bus entirely, I probably wouldn't fit a NIC either. I'd also definitely install some of that software that makes the HDD read only and transparently passes through all writes to RAM. Fuckit, if I'm the US military I'd develop such a device in hardware. Send the recorded video/telemetry data to a write-only v…

The difference between the military and the neighborhood computers you used to assist with are the military has to deal with a plethora of entry points for viruses, and can't scrub every USB thumb drive that is at home rather than at the office. I get the feeling that you've not been doing this for 10-12 years yet. Am I right?

It seems pretty trivial to me just to string the cabling into a lockbox with the computer inside to prevent people from screwing around with your ports.

That said, i'm not in charge of physical security of anything. I'm sure the guys with missile launching computers figure anybody that can get to the secure terminal is trustworthy.

Re: Computer virus hits US Predator and Reaper drone fleet

#72

Post by pcottle »

jlarocco wrote: post #33
misterbwong wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow can anyone confirm this? I'm surprised that the drones themselves are running windows. If so, I presume it's win CE or a custom variant of?

The way it works is some AF guy in Nevada remotely controls the drones flying half way across the world. My guess is it's not the drones themselves running Windows, but the consoles used to communicate with the drones. It makes sense. AF guy gets to work, plugs in his USB drive filled with music and pulls up the drone control program... Though, now that I think about it, I would be disappointed, but not entirely surp…

No modern UAV has hardware capable of running an entire Windows installation. Think of arduino boards; those things can control huge robotics systems and they are very simple (and thus simple to debug). If you're designing a robot from the ground-up, why would you scale all the way to Windows? No one is going to be playing minesweeper inside the plane

Re: Computer virus hits US Predator and Reaper drone fleet

#73

Post by Permit »

JonnieCache wrote: post #53
ghshephard wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I would disable the USB bus entirely" So how would you support Mice, Keyboards and Joysticks? And how long would it take you to retrofit all of the some 100K+ PCs rated "secret" or above in the Government?

I'd attach them to the PCIe bus somehow, or otherwise wire them straight into the motherboard. Let me remind you that this computer can fire missiles at people , and has a potentially unlimited budget.

It does not have a potentially unlimited budget. As was mentioned above, these are often contracted third parties who develop the systems. They put in bids on government jobs and undoubtedly have their own margins to look after. Once the job is awarded, my understanding is that you can't change the price-tag it was awarded at. (At least, not easily)

Re: Computer virus hits US Predator and Reaper drone fleet

#74

Post by Bud »

JonnieCache wrote: post #11

Like hugh says, this doesn't add up at all. “We keep wiping it off, and it keeps coming back,” says a source familiar with the network infection, one of three that told Danger Room about the virus. “We think it’s benign. But we just don’t know.” C'mon. You're the military. "It just keeps coming back?" So you decide to do a press release about it? Please. I wouldn't have whined like that when I was de-malwareing neigh…

I don't know how I can be any more clear here:

If they are not smart enough to keep malware off of what should be the most secure systems around, perhaps they shouldn't be building the fricking FLYING REMOTE-CONTROL DEATH MACHINES for a while, until they can figure out the basics.

Capisce, guys?

Re: Computer virus hits US Predator and Reaper drone fleet

#75

Post by burgerbrain »

munin wrote: post #40
JonnieCache wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'm ever in charge of a PC capable of firing guns at people, then at a bare minimum I would disable the USB bus entirely, I probably wouldn't fit a NIC either. I'd also definitely install some of that software that makes the HDD read only and transparently passes through all writes to RAM. Fuckit, if I'm the US military I'd develop such a device in hardware. Send the recorded video/telemetry data to a write-only v…

then the general will tell you "y'know the boys tell me that their job would be easier if they could listen to pandora on this puppy. i order you to connect it to the internet. if you don't comply, i'll have you arrested." have fun!

Despite being as fucked up as it is, that's not how the military works.

Re: Computer virus hits US Predator and Reaper drone fleet

#76

Post by Pyrodogg »

roc wrote: post #35
Pyrodogg wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because someone leaked it. > “We keep wiping it off, and it keeps coming back,” says a source familiar with the network infection, one of three that told Danger Room about the virus. “We think it’s benign. But we just don’t know.” The end of the article says they asked for an official response and were stonewalled. > The Air Force declined to comment directly on the virus. “We generally do not discuss specific vulner…

Or the military staff is leaking this to motivate the higher-up who green-lit the contract to exert some pressure, because they have unfortunately-little direct power themselves.

I don't think that is really an 'or' case. Either someone with authority to disclose makes an official statement or someone lacking that authority leaks it.

Re: Computer virus hits US Predator and Reaper drone fleet

#77

Post by jarin »

Pyrodogg wrote: post #57
Vivtek wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there was that case maybe ten years ago of the nuclear carrier that had to be towed back to port after a BSoD killed it dead in the water; its control systems all ran Windows.

> On 21 September 1997, while on maneuvers off the coast of Cape Charles, Virginia, a crew member entered a zero into a database field causing a divide by zero error in the ship's Remote Data Base Manager which brought down all the machines on the network, causing the ship's propulsion system to fail. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Yorktown_(CG-48)#Smart_ship... Wow. Reading more of the wiki article (and linked sou…

Ok I don't feel so bad now. I was stationed on a nuclear carrier and one day I accidentally deleted the entire supply/logistics/personnel/maintenance database cluster.

I mean come on, the menu option was labeled "Re-index databases". I thought it would make it go faster :)

I ended up just making something up and restoring from backup.

Re: Computer virus hits US Predator and Reaper drone fleet

#78

Post by roc »

ghshephard wrote: post #48
roc wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they could just fill all the usb ports with glue and remove the optical disk drives, if any. I thought the whole point of an air gap network is that nothing crosses the gap. Having those ports/devices available is just asking for it.

"usb ports with glue" Keyboards, Mice, Joysticks for these systems were probably designed with the idea that a USB bus would be available. It will take a while to replace all of these systems with their non-USB configurations. Given that BlueTooth is probably a no-no as well, how would one build a system these days that needs to support Mice, Joysticks, and Keyboards without using USB?

How about an over-cage for the physical machine?

A literal chicken-wire-style cage that encloses the PC case, with openings too small to pass the head of a USB device.

The cage would be locked to prevent removal of the machine and have a locked backpanel which allows certified staff to install the various usb devices -- with some sort of cage mount inside to loop the cables around, so that a tug from the user wouldn't pull the usb connector from the machine and cause an obnoxious number of calls to 'the guy with the key' to plug a mouse back in.

The cage would neatly deny access to any and every port or drive that may or may not be present in one fell swoop, which would likely simplify OEM contracts and final installation as well as increase security.

You could build the cage physically larger than the general range of whichever flavor(s) of ATX cases are being used, so that the cages could be manufactured in bulk without too much worry about a switch between PC OEMs causing problems.

You could even add a screw-style bracket or two to hold the PC case firm within the cage and put some acoustic foam pads here and there to cut down on any extra noise.

Re: Computer virus hits US Predator and Reaper drone fleet

#79

Post by burgerbrain »

phillmv wrote: post #37
JonnieCache wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'm ever in charge of a PC capable of firing guns at people, then at a bare minimum I would disable the USB bus entirely, I probably wouldn't fit a NIC either. I'd also definitely install some of that software that makes the HDD read only and transparently passes through all writes to RAM. Fuckit, if I'm the US military I'd develop such a device in hardware. Send the recorded video/telemetry data to a write-only v…

>It's not that hard. eye roll

Bespoke hardware for government agencies with unlimited budgets is nothing new.

Re: Computer virus hits US Predator and Reaper drone fleet

#80

Post by redthrowaway »

munin wrote: post #65
breck wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that hard if you have a top notch engineer in charge and give him whatever he needs to get the job done. If you have a good engineer or a great engineer but any kind of bureaucracy, yes, it's near impossible.

google - top notch engineers, given whatever they need to get the job done, no bureaucracy, still get owned?

If you're talking about the China hacks, they were using ie6. I'd argue that would preclude the "top notch engineer" label.
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