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Google terminated our Developer Account, says it is “associated”

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Re: Google terminated our Developer Account, says it is “associated”

#71

Post by falcolas »

mikece wrote: post #38
falcolas wrote: post #4

In the discussion of the last article, there was a discussion about weaponizing "associated accounts" when Google shuts things down. Looks like it's 100% a valid tactic. Looks like you need to make sure your employees all leave on good terms, and stay on good terms in the coming years. Otherwise, you too might find your Google accounts terminated with no recourse.

This also suggests a need for app development companies to ban developers from using personal accounts to associate with a project. I realize this just sends more money in the direction of Google but if every app developer was set up with a G-Suite (or whatever it's called this week) account for developer access then there could be no question of actions a developer does on their own accounts coming back to bite the…

> ban developers from using personal accounts to associate with a project

As I understand it, this may not be sufficient, since Google also looks at things like "logged in from the same browser" or "logged in via the same IP" to find associated accounts.

> mark a developer's account as "fired for cause"

Which, practically (and maybe legally) speaking is not something Google needs to know. Then again, in a world where Google can shut your company down arbitrarily, perhaps it is something Google needs to know...

Re: Google terminated our Developer Account, says it is “associated”

#72

Post by zivkovicp »

qalmakka wrote: post #22

I will say this once again: App Stores are too important in the current world to be left to the mercy of some big Internet company. I agree they should get a cut due to them being both the creators and maintainers of their platforms, but their ability to regulate what's in them should be left to a third party or government agency, just like trade is not left to its own devices and has regulators. Apple and Google are…

hear, hear.

Re: Google terminated our Developer Account, says it is “associated”

#73

Post by toqy »

bluescrn wrote: post #36
savant_penguin wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really unsure why people still decide to build their companies under Google products

Android has a ~70% share of the mobile device market, that seems reason enough. (Although more focus on the mobile web rather than apps might be a good thing)

I haven't checked in a while, but with Apple you used to have a much better chance of people shelling out money for/in your app.

Re: Google terminated our Developer Account, says it is “associated”

#74

Post by xboxnolifes »

yunohn wrote: post #61
lima wrote: post #7

We need legislation forcing companies to manually review algorithmic decisions that impact people's lives - there has to be a proper appeals process. It's simply not economical for many companies to deal with the long tail of false positives, so they don't. Google has billions of users, and if their algorithms are 99.999% right about bans, their metrics look great but that's still tens of thousands users wrongfully b…

> It's simply not economical for many companies to deal with the long tail of false positives, so they don't. This happens everywhere, not just Big Tech. Even as humans, we try to handle the 99% and ignore the 1%. I still don’t understand what anyone is proposing - force companies to provide support against their will?

> I still don’t understand what anyone is proposing - force companies to provide support against their will?

That's what laws are: forcing people to do things they would otherwise not do.

Re: Google terminated our Developer Account, says it is “associated”

#75

Post by jmyeet »

I feel this user’s pain. Obviously we don’t know of food action was warranted in this case. Sometimes it isn’t and there being no recourse is unacceptable. Knowing someone at the company, having a sufficient Twitter audience or relying on posts like this getting attention should not be how this is resolved.

Side note: I absolutely won’t use my Gmail account for any other Google service. It’s just too great a risk and it’s ridiculous that a developer ToS violation can also kill your Gmail access.

I see a fundamental mistake these companies make with automation: optimizing for the wrong metric.

The metric they seem to use is the number of cases handled by automated systems. What they should use is the number of cases their workers can deal with.

The difference is that the second one doesn’t reward false positives. There are some cases that need human review. You should even be able to pay for expedited review (ideally refunding you if the decision is made in error).

A good example of this is Tiktok’s reporting system. Like many such systems it’s clear that it just takes actions based on the number of reports. There is no penalty for fake reports. So people brigade creators they don’t like (typically politics and science) and those affected have to go appeals processes. It’s ridiculous.

Put another way: automation shouldn’t replace people. It should augment their effectiveness.

Re: Google terminated our Developer Account, says it is “associated”

#76

Post by mijoharas »

mikece wrote: post #38
falcolas wrote: post #4

In the discussion of the last article, there was a discussion about weaponizing "associated accounts" when Google shuts things down. Looks like it's 100% a valid tactic. Looks like you need to make sure your employees all leave on good terms, and stay on good terms in the coming years. Otherwise, you too might find your Google accounts terminated with no recourse.

This also suggests a need for app development companies to ban developers from using personal accounts to associate with a project. I realize this just sends more money in the direction of Google but if every app developer was set up with a G-Suite (or whatever it's called this week) account for developer access then there could be no question of actions a developer does on their own accounts coming back to bite the…

So, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I read a similar HN article a while back, that said a users company and their personal google developer accounts got "associated" somehow (can't remember the specifics), so I'm not sure if that would be a mitigation for this issue.

I do agree that it's a sensible thing to do and it _should_ be enough to mitigate issues like this.

Re: Google terminated our Developer Account, says it is “associated”

#77

Post by rileymat2 »

lima wrote: post #7

We need legislation forcing companies to manually review algorithmic decisions that impact people's lives - there has to be a proper appeals process. It's simply not economical for many companies to deal with the long tail of false positives, so they don't. Google has billions of users, and if their algorithms are 99.999% right about bans, their metrics look great but that's still tens of thousands users wrongfully b…

> We need legislation forcing companies to manually review algorithmic decisions that impact people's lives, and have a proper appeals process.

What you want is human judgement, but it will be hard to legislate that. What can easily happen is the human parroting back the underlying reasons for the decision. In this case "We have reviewed your case, and according to our records the account is associated with the problematic account"

I have had this happen to me in bureaucratic situations with no computers involved.

Re: Google terminated our Developer Account, says it is “associated”

#78

Post by voakbasda »

bluescrn wrote: post #36
savant_penguin wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really unsure why people still decide to build their companies under Google products

Android has a ~70% share of the mobile device market, that seems reason enough. (Although more focus on the mobile web rather than apps might be a good thing)

They only have that share because developers continue to support their platform.

Too bad developer greed prevents an effective boycott of their ecosystem. If enough people stopped giving them money, they would change.

Re: Google terminated our Developer Account, says it is “associated”

#79

Post by belter »

chinathrow wrote: post #41

If you work at Google in this area (and I bet some of you will), then please, escalate this and please, fix your systems - as this is clearly something which destroys peoples lifes.

You don't get the 500K for your coding skills. Sounds like it's to soothe your conscience...

Re: Google terminated our Developer Account, says it is “associated”

#80

Post by lima »

carrolyda wrote: post #30
savant_penguin wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really unsure why people still decide to build their companies under Google products

Is there any cloud/PaaS/SaaS company without a "we can terminate your account at any time for any reason"-clause? Otherwise you still have the same problem wherever you go.

There isn't. Google is just in the news more frequently simply because they have many customers, but that doesn't make it any less of a problem (across the board, not just Google).
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