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Richard Stallman on Steve Jobs

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Re: Richard Stallman on Steve Jobs

#81

Post by smoyer »

pmclanahan wrote: post #36
Udo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, what an asshole. Saying that the world will be a better place after someone dies should be reserved for mass murderers and lobbyists - it's a harsh and inappropriate statement about a leading industry figure, whether you agree with that figure or not. For example, I violently disagree with RMS on a lot of things, but I still believe he is a visionary, and Open Source is a valuable concept that will always be…

I'm glad you called it "Open Source"; RMS hates that :)

So I guess I should have mentioned that I'm a Linux user? But I use Ubuntu Linux instead of that GNU/Linux ;)

Re: Richard Stallman on Steve Jobs

#82

Post by aespinoza »

yesreally wrote: post #15

For those that are kneejerkingly chastising Stallman, understand his point of view. OS X and iOS are not free, and Apple led by Jobs changed the way that people thought about installing Applications on desktop operating systems as something that requires manufacturer approval (App Store), which led the way for others like Intel to make AppUp, etc. This restricts what the user has access to install is more of a setbac…

I am not a Mac fan, in fact the only thing I have from Apple is the iPad. I have an Android phone and I have a windows machine.

Still, Stallman, as a public figure should have remained silent. These kind of comments don't help anybody, specially not the community.

Now I do understand his point of view, what I do not understand is why he can't see the whole picture. That is all. He should have remained silent if he had nothing good to say. His comments have no value at all to anybody.

Re: Richard Stallman on Steve Jobs

#83

Post by OpieCunningham »

pasbesoin wrote: post #43

You know, I have some feeling surrounding Jobs' passing (while I never met him, I've known a number of people who did -- mostly from 20+ years ago), and I've appreciated the tributes. But there is also the desire and need to discuss it in context. Some respect may well be warranted, and there may not be the need to rush headlong into critical analysis, but Jobs' passing does promote a lot of attention and focus that…

Well said.

I generally don't agree with Stallman's viewpoint, but his voice is important. I would neither like to see an all encompassing Jobs-world nor a Stallman-world. As long as the one exists with the other we all have more opportunity. The Jobs approach enables mass consumption of technology. The Stallman approach enables fully detailed exploration of technology. Either, on their own, severely restricts access to technology. In the case of the former, through disseminating technology by fiat. In the case of the latter, through disseminating technology only to the dedicated and skillful.

I don't see how either one can disappear and leave the other as the complete dominating implementation of technology. It doesn't appear to be a possibility. Even with market domination of the walled-garden approach, the hacker will always have the opportunity and capability to start from scratch. There's nothing stopping anyone from building a better mobile OS.

Re: Richard Stallman on Steve Jobs

#84

Post by brlewis »

pasbesoin wrote: post #43

You know, I have some feeling surrounding Jobs' passing (while I never met him, I've known a number of people who did -- mostly from 20+ years ago), and I've appreciated the tributes. But there is also the desire and need to discuss it in context. Some respect may well be warranted, and there may not be the need to rush headlong into critical analysis, but Jobs' passing does promote a lot of attention and focus that…

...I would expect the stories and comments to move to a full and varied spectrum of views....there needs to be room for a larger conversation.

You said this well, but it's been said better:

"Here's to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They're not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo. You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify and vilify them. About the only thing you can't do is ignore them because they change things. They push the human race forward. And while some may see them as crazy, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do."

Re: Richard Stallman on Steve Jobs

#85

Post by marekmroz »

jsavimbi wrote: post #78
burgerbrain wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should people be stifled just because somebody died? What exactly are we concerned about? Steve Jobs becoming disgruntled, rising from his grave, and sucking the blood of virgins during the night? This "dead people are off limits" thing is a relic from the superstitious dark ages. If we can praise the actions of dead people, we can criticize them too.

Because people have feelings.

People also have opinions and they should be free to express them.

Re: Richard Stallman on Steve Jobs

#86

Post by patrickaljord »

Toady wrote: post #73
flarg wrote: post #33

Stallman is consistent and vastly intelligent and whilst his comments can be seen as insensitive he is quite correct that Steve Jobs did suppress software freedom. We don't go to Stallman for sensitivity (you're a dolt if you do), we go to him for the truth, no matter how painful. We can all do with that sometimes - http://www.skepticblog.org/2011/10/06/steve-jobs-succumbs-to...

Equating the iPhone to a "jail" is goofy political hyperbole. Normal people don't even view software in that context. It's just a piece of hardware and software they choose to use or not use. Stallman represents the strain of computer nerds who want to view their hobby as the bold movement of a freedom fighter. They are out-of-touch and don't understand what normal people think and feel. They want their nerd playgrou…

> Equating the iPhone to a "jail" is goofy political hyperbole.

Isn't jailbreak an accepted term now to root an iphone?

Re: Richard Stallman on Steve Jobs

#87

Post by marekmroz »

mvitti wrote: post #65

I wonder if this guy thinks there is ANY software that is worthy of being purchased or is it all tainted in some way? Has he ever purchased a can of soda, a movie ticket, a laptop computer, etc.? How does he even subsist in our corporate consumerist society without compromising his highly developed sense of right and wrong? I don't know but gathering from his hateful disposition it must not be easy.

As far as I understand his philosophy, it has nothing to do with paying for software and all to do with your freedom to modify said software whether you paid for it or not to suit your needs.

Re: Richard Stallman on Steve Jobs

#88

Post by _delirium »

gnoupi wrote: post #67
RexRollman wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to computing, it seems to me that most people would rather have a pretty prison than freedom.

Mostly because freedom is not really accessible for most people, in matter of computing. You can have freedom to install what you want, the way you want... only a minority ultimately knows how to. The rest is left without a clue in front of their supposed freedom. When the iPad is presented to people, of course it's no "revolution" to most of us. But for the regular person, it's an easy way to access something which…

There are some people who do think freedom and accessibility can coexist; interestingly enough, some of the very people whose work Apple built on (but focusing more on the accessibility part of their work). For example, Alan Kay and Ted Nelson have both long pushed the idea that computer systems can be both hackable and user-friendly / broadly accessible, rather than having to be split into a dichotomy of consumer-appliance versus hackable-nerd-toy.

Re: Richard Stallman on Steve Jobs

#89

Post by _delirium »

Toady wrote: post #73
flarg wrote: post #33

Stallman is consistent and vastly intelligent and whilst his comments can be seen as insensitive he is quite correct that Steve Jobs did suppress software freedom. We don't go to Stallman for sensitivity (you're a dolt if you do), we go to him for the truth, no matter how painful. We can all do with that sometimes - http://www.skepticblog.org/2011/10/06/steve-jobs-succumbs-to...

Equating the iPhone to a "jail" is goofy political hyperbole. Normal people don't even view software in that context. It's just a piece of hardware and software they choose to use or not use. Stallman represents the strain of computer nerds who want to view their hobby as the bold movement of a freedom fighter. They are out-of-touch and don't understand what normal people think and feel. They want their nerd playgrou…

It's hard for me to say how representative my non-techie friends are, but nearly all have some understanding that the App Store is tightly controlled by Apple, and not always in ways they agree with (apps being banned or not approved makes mainstream news semi-regularly). They accept it because they still like the iPhone more than the alternatives, but I wouldn't say that they are 100% happy with the way the App Store is run. Some join random "tell apple to unban [thing]" groups on Facebook periodically.

Re: Richard Stallman on Steve Jobs

#90

Post by deanproxy »

burgerbrain wrote: post #66
2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone died though. The polite thing to do would probably be to say nothing at all ...

Why should people be stifled just because somebody died? What exactly are we concerned about? Steve Jobs becoming disgruntled, rising from his grave, and sucking the blood of virgins during the night? This "dead people are off limits" thing is a relic from the superstitious dark ages. If we can praise the actions of dead people, we can criticize them too.

He has a family that he left behind. His wife and children. If your father just passed away 48 hours ago, would you want to read about how somebody is glad that he's finally gone? I sure wouldn't... It's called respect.
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