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FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

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Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#461

Post by orwin »

rootusrootus wrote: post #415
mh- wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prepare to wait on hold for hours, probably trying for multiple days. They are woefully behind. I believe your best chance is dialing in right when they open, before the call queues build up. Also the folks answering the calls are in a better mood then, and you're more likely to get the outcome you're looking for.

It's too bad they're so far behind now. It used to be fairly painless to reach a human at the IRS, and they are usually pretty helpful. Kind of the opposite of what a lot of people expect.

Worked as a temp for the IRS equivalent in my country. The degree of understanding and professionalism was unexpected. We were just overworked, mostly because the systems were really not up to date and had a few directives that were a bit inhumane (first time asking for a delay=> ok in all cases, no explanation needed. 4th time=> NOK in all cases, expect interests.). For people who couldn't afford the taxes, we had really knowledgeable people taking a lot of time finding ways of rebating taxes, people who could make 10x working as taxes lawyers and making a better job at it than actual lawyer (in my skewed perspective, don't quote me on that).

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#462

Post by cmutel »

softveda wrote: post #328
nathancahill wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government: You owe us money. It’s called taxes. Me: How much do I owe? Gov’t: You have to figure that out. Me: I just pay what I want? Gov’t: Oh, no we know exactly how much you owe. But you have to guess that number too. Me: What if I get it wrong? Gov’t: You go to prison Source: https://twitter.com/jordan_stratton/status/11181414550616719... I dig this one up every April.

This is how is works in Australia. The Australian Tax Office will pre-fill your tax return online with income from your wages, interests, managed fund distributions, dividends etc. That maybe enough for simple tax returns, you can just accept their values and submit. What they don't know is your income from sources like rental income or crypto. They also don't know deductions you are going to claim. In this case you…

Since we're having the semi-annual "how do taxes work in other countries" thread, here is my experience as an American living in Switzerland. Though I have been here a while, I still find it interesting and a little weird.

At the beginning of the year, you get a bill for that year based on what they think you will owe. This bill is due on October 31, i.e. you need to pay your estimated income tax before you have earned all that income. This is especially strange because most people will get a 13th month salary at the end of October (your annual salary is split into 13 months, the extra comes in time for Christms presents?). You are expected to save adequately to be able by the end of October.

Banking secrecy is not dead in Switzerland. There are no longer anonymous accounts, and banks share information with foreign governments. However, there is banking secrecy between the banks and the government. On the other hand, we pay a wealth tax each year (it's small), so you need to declare each account and how much you had in it on December 31.

To create an equal playing field between house owners and renters, house owners pay an imputed rent cost for how much they would have paid in rent for their house. This is added to their income before taxes are calculated. In my case, this means my assessed income is around 25k higher than it otherwise would be.

There is no automatic form filling in my state, but there is free tax software (Java app which runs everywhere), and it is pretty easy to use. If you have questions, the local tax office will nicely respond via "secure email" in 1-2 days.

Taxes are very progressive and family friendly. With 4 kids and one income we pay 6.5% combined local/state/federal on income of around 120k (plus imputed rent).

There are no property taxes. For the wealth tax, most people who own houses never pay off their mortgages. They will typically have a mortgage for 50% of the house value (which can be quite high, a typical house where I live is between 800k and 1000k, and more in bigger cities). The interest can be deducted, and the mortgage amount from the wealth tax.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#463

Post by sgjohnson »

randmeerkat wrote: post #352
nathancahill wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government: You owe us money. It’s called taxes. Me: How much do I owe? Gov’t: You have to figure that out. Me: I just pay what I want? Gov’t: Oh, no we know exactly how much you owe. But you have to guess that number too. Me: What if I get it wrong? Gov’t: You go to prison Source: https://twitter.com/jordan_stratton/status/11181414550616719... I dig this one up every April.

What’s crazy is that unreasonable taxes is one of the main reasons _why_ the British settlers rebelled against the Crown and went on to found America. The fact that nearly 250 years later we have an absurd, convoluted tax system, that literally requires specialists and companies with absurd market caps, for example Intuit has a $137B market cap, shows just how broken the system has become.

“Me and my homies woulda be stacking bodies by now”

- George Washington, probably

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#464

Post by refurb »

thebigman433 wrote: post #292
calsy wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how does someone remain elected if they don't listen to their constituents?

Generally by massively outspending opponents in the primary.

No, this is just the cynic HN perspective and an excuse to do nothing about it.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#465

Post by refurb »

adfgadfgaery wrote: post #399
anitil wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What did Grover Norquist do (not-American here)?

Grover Norquist wants to cut government spending. It's difficult to do that directly because people often like government services. Instead he suggests cutting taxes. This is easier to sell to the public because no one likes paying taxes. This will drive the government into debt, forcing spending cuts due to the risk of default. This plan is called "starving the beast". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast…

This seems like an internet meme and a "just so" story that once you dig turns out not to be true (the "let's make it more complex" part).

Sources would be nice.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#466

Post by legalcorrection »

dguest wrote: post #453
zw123456 wrote: post #271

A few years back I got audited, and it was called an "electronic audit" by the IRS. Which basically meant that they had their computer systems scour a bunch of the bank records and discovered that I had forgotten to claim a 1099 for some contract work I had. OK, so they sent me a computer print out and they had cross checked everything on my return electronically, my property tax deductions, my stock dividends so on…

I know people who have optimized this: - they fill out their taxes with rough estimates, - the IRS helpfully corrects their errors, and sends the form back - they sign the corrected form, send it back - the IRS accepts the second round. This is basically the same "pre-filled" workflow as every other developed country. The difference is that we have a first round where you put in a semi-plausible effort to placate the…

Beware: if you owe the government money due to your mistakes, you will have to pay penalties and interest.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#467

Post by sgjohnson »

broptimist wrote: post #446
briandear wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxes shouldn’t be used to get people to do things or not do things. Taxes should be used only to fund the essential services of the government: common defense, a legal system to enforce contracts, and that’s about it. When taxes are used as a means of control, that’s totalitarian. Tax policy should always be neutral.

So you wouldn't be in favor of a carbon tax? What about a tax on tobacco sales in a universal healthcare system? (to offset tobacco users' additional healthcare costs)

I wouldn’t.

And “sin taxes”, i.e. tobbaco taxes and carbon taxes are a logical fallacy.

Tobacco tax won’t offset the additional healthcare costs for smokers on average, so it ends up just being a penalty for having a bad habit, and carbon tax will simply put a price tag on high carbon emissions.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#468

Post by sgjohnson »

orwin wrote: post #454
briandear wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxes shouldn’t be used to get people to do things or not do things. Taxes should be used only to fund the essential services of the government: common defense, a legal system to enforce contracts, and that’s about it. When taxes are used as a means of control, that’s totalitarian. Tax policy should always be neutral.

Tax should also control for externalities. Especially 'common good' pollution/destruction/captation. It's too easy to make a company go bankrupt with LLC, so taxes are the only way. Unless you have a better idea? (I once had a libertarian explain to me the owners/investors should be liable for externalities, and in this case, taxes shouldn't control for it. I couldn't really disagree, but even staunch communists unde…

> Tax should also control for externalities. Especially 'common good' pollution/destruction/captation.

The problem with this approach is all it does is it legitimises pollution/destruction/captation if you just pay a tax on it.

Not even a penalty for wrongdoing. Pay a tax and you’re fine.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#469

Post by toast0 »

swozey wrote: post #373
zw123456 wrote: post #271

A few years back I got audited, and it was called an "electronic audit" by the IRS. Which basically meant that they had their computer systems scour a bunch of the bank records and discovered that I had forgotten to claim a 1099 for some contract work I had. OK, so they sent me a computer print out and they had cross checked everything on my return electronically, my property tax deductions, my stock dividends so on…

I have a $165k notice of defiecency bill from the IRS due next month that is a complete joke that I have had to spend days figuring out. I almost dropped thousands on a lawyer for it until I understood Tax Court better. Why? They think I sold a house and kept all of the gains. Like I didn't have a mortgage, and like it wasn't my primary residence. It's ridiculous. I can't explain how stressed out getting a $165k bill…

Did you report the sale? When I sold my primary residence in 2018, it ended up on Schedule D and Form 8949, and there were no questions asked. The IRS does have a tendency to assume zero basis when there's a capital sale reported to them that doesn't appear in the tax return; which makes for scary bills, but can usually be resolved by reporting the sale and your basis on the appropriate form. (although I see from further replies that you are now having to deal with this in Tax Court, so that sounds like a terrible time, and I'm sorry for your tedium)

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#470

Post by sgjohnson »

trulyme wrote: post #442
runako wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> those with non-wage income This is a lot of people now, thanks to the gig economy. Similarly, farmers plus people who work for tips (at employers that do not centralize tips).

Genuinly curious: do people in US report tips on their tax forms? (forgive my ignorance - tips are much less common around where I live)

Not if they are cash tips, obviously.

Because why would anyone do that. But legally speaking, yes, you have to.

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