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FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

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Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#411

Post by eyelidlessness »

pc86 wrote: post #408
zw123456 wrote: post #271

A few years back I got audited, and it was called an "electronic audit" by the IRS. Which basically meant that they had their computer systems scour a bunch of the bank records and discovered that I had forgotten to claim a 1099 for some contract work I had. OK, so they sent me a computer print out and they had cross checked everything on my return electronically, my property tax deductions, my stock dividends so on…

Lobby certainly doesn't help but "just tell me what I owe" is not practical or possible, and is an overly simplistic view of everything about the system. Most importantly, the 1099 your client filed telling them you got paid more than $600 was due the same time your taxes were due, so they didn't know about it until after the fact. The feds have no idea how your deductions (and to a lesser extent, your income) have c…

How is it not obvious this is a system designed for abuse favoring the most privileged abusers?

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#412

Post by throwaway09223 »

briandear wrote: post #405
throwaway09223 wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. The IRS definitely does not know how much I owe each year. However, they do have an estimate and the vast majority of people would accept this estimate. So I think it's reasonable to suggest it ought to be provided. I think the strongest counter-argument against this approach is in regards to bad actors and who discloses first. If you're thinking about hiding income and the first step is the government telli…

> the vast majority of people would accept this estimate. And the vast majority of people would then overpay. The IRS knows income, but they don’t know expenses.

This would be true if it weren't for the standard deduction. Something like 90% of all filers opt for the standard deduction, obviating the need for itemized expenses.

Almost everyone would be best served by IRS calculated taxes. It's the wealthy and those with non-wage income who need the alphabet schedules.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#413

Post by briandear »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #371
randmeerkat wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s crazy is that unreasonable taxes is one of the main reasons _why_ the British settlers rebelled against the Crown and went on to found America. The fact that nearly 250 years later we have an absurd, convoluted tax system, that literally requires specialists and companies with absurd market caps, for example Intuit has a $137B market cap, shows just how broken the system has become.

The central problem is the refusal of US governments (state & federal) to pay people money to do things they want to encourage rather than give them tax credits and whatnot.

Taxes shouldn’t be used to get people to do things or not do things. Taxes should be used only to fund the essential services of the government: common defense, a legal system to enforce contracts, and that’s about it.

When taxes are used as a means of control, that’s totalitarian. Tax policy should always be neutral.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#414

Post by pc86 »

throwaway09223 wrote: post #390
btgeekboy wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a nice, if overly simplistic sentiment. It’d be nice if my 1099s were electronically filed with the cost basis. But they’re not. So the IRS, every year, thinks I’m going to owe way more than I do. The IRS also has zero idea about the $4000+ of sales tax deductions I’m filing for this year. And finally, if you do get it wrong, you don’t go to jail. They send you a CP2000 letter. (Remember those 1099s? I forgot on…

I agree. The IRS definitely does not know how much I owe each year. However, they do have an estimate and the vast majority of people would accept this estimate. So I think it's reasonable to suggest it ought to be provided. I think the strongest counter-argument against this approach is in regards to bad actors and who discloses first. If you're thinking about hiding income and the first step is the government telli…

"Estimate" implies someone is trying to... estimate something. The IRS has partial information. They don't have anything approaching something that anyone could reasonably call an estimate, and this isn't just an example of HN pedantry, it's an important distinction.

They know some of your income, but not all of it. Your 1099 income for the year is getting filed by your clients at the same time you're filing it, so all they know is what your AGI was last year. They know your expenses from last year in terms of the numbers, but they haven't been checked (last I saw, they were 3-5 years behind on cross-checking and validation depending on type of return). So they could plug the number in, sort of.

So they have your reported info from previous years, and a best guess at some of what this year's information might be.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#415

Post by rootusrootus »

mh- wrote: post #294
tombert wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, it didn't even occur to me to try that. I'll give it a go tomorrow.

Prepare to wait on hold for hours, probably trying for multiple days. They are woefully behind. I believe your best chance is dialing in right when they open, before the call queues build up. Also the folks answering the calls are in a better mood then, and you're more likely to get the outcome you're looking for.

It's too bad they're so far behind now. It used to be fairly painless to reach a human at the IRS, and they are usually pretty helpful. Kind of the opposite of what a lot of people expect.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#416

Post by thehappypm »

zw123456 wrote: post #271

A few years back I got audited, and it was called an "electronic audit" by the IRS. Which basically meant that they had their computer systems scour a bunch of the bank records and discovered that I had forgotten to claim a 1099 for some contract work I had. OK, so they sent me a computer print out and they had cross checked everything on my return electronically, my property tax deductions, my stock dividends so on…

Oddly enough conservatives see that as a problem. They want this to be a big process for two reasons. First, taxpayers understanding the process is a good thing. It means they’re not getting gouged and they’re aware of their taxes. Second, they don’t want taxes to be something we just say “k” to like a cell phone bill. That could lead to it being extremely easy to raise taxes.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#417

Post by vadym909 »

btgeekboy wrote: post #380
nathancahill wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government: You owe us money. It’s called taxes. Me: How much do I owe? Gov’t: You have to figure that out. Me: I just pay what I want? Gov’t: Oh, no we know exactly how much you owe. But you have to guess that number too. Me: What if I get it wrong? Gov’t: You go to prison Source: https://twitter.com/jordan_stratton/status/11181414550616719... I dig this one up every April.

It’s a nice, if overly simplistic sentiment. It’d be nice if my 1099s were electronically filed with the cost basis. But they’re not. So the IRS, every year, thinks I’m going to owe way more than I do. The IRS also has zero idea about the $4000+ of sales tax deductions I’m filing for this year. And finally, if you do get it wrong, you don’t go to jail. They send you a CP2000 letter. (Remember those 1099s? I forgot on…

Ok- If you have extras you are going to claim- do it. You are the exception. Why force everyone else who doesn't run a business or claim expenses to do it.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#418

Post by fragmede »

pc86 wrote: post #414
throwaway09223 wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. The IRS definitely does not know how much I owe each year. However, they do have an estimate and the vast majority of people would accept this estimate. So I think it's reasonable to suggest it ought to be provided. I think the strongest counter-argument against this approach is in regards to bad actors and who discloses first. If you're thinking about hiding income and the first step is the government telli…

"Estimate" implies someone is trying to... estimate something. The IRS has partial information. They don't have anything approaching something that anyone could reasonably call an estimate, and this isn't just an example of HN pedantry, it's an important distinction. They know some of your income, but not all of it. Your 1099 income for the year is getting filed by your clients at the same time you're filing it, so a…

So give me a partially filled out form with the information they do know then. Fill in the standard deduction, let me do the extra credit work for itemized deductions if I really want, eg I find taxes fun to do. (Some 90% of filers just go with the standard deductions.) Don't buy into Intuit's nonsense that the current system is good for anything other than their bottom line.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#419

Post by KerrAvon »

jaguar1878 wrote: post #244
tombert wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About two weeks ago, I got a letter from the IRS telling me that I owe an extra eight-thousand dollars from my 2020 return, with a $1000 fine and $200 interest as a result. [1] I'm not mad about owing the money, but what annoys me is if they have enough information to know that I underreported, then why am I part of this equation to begin with? Clearly they have enough of my tax data to know I screwed up, so why don'…

As others have noted, the IRS doesn't know everything, and some things may be to your advantage to report to them. They could send you a bill and ask you to fix it, but many people wouldn't know where to look to find mistakes. For example: RSUs and NQSOs (employee stock grants) are in my experience handled extremely poorly by default. If I have RSUs vest when the stock is worth $10 a share, then I pay income tax that…

I also have to deal with the cost basis issue every year, and it’s the biggest headache in the entire process for me and my partner. I don’t understand why the brokerage can’t provide the correct basis directly — it would lead to way fewer mistakes and more accurate returns.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#420

Post by lotsofpulp »

fragmede wrote: post #418
pc86 wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Estimate" implies someone is trying to... estimate something. The IRS has partial information. They don't have anything approaching something that anyone could reasonably call an estimate, and this isn't just an example of HN pedantry, it's an important distinction. They know some of your income, but not all of it. Your 1099 income for the year is getting filed by your clients at the same time you're filing it, so a…

So give me a partially filled out form with the information they do know then. Fill in the standard deduction, let me do the extra credit work for itemized deductions if I really want, eg I find taxes fun to do. (Some 90% of filers just go with the standard deductions.) Don't buy into Intuit's nonsense that the current system is good for anything other than their bottom line.

Standard deduction varies based on your filing status (single/married joint/married separate/etc). IRS will not know if that changed in the year.
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