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Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

theswaddle.com

131–140 of 159 posts

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#131

Having a higher than average amount of empathy seems to be a disadvantage in many ways. It seems in many cases to be correlated with anxiety and depression. It can be difficult for people with high levels of empathy to recognize the boundaries between their own self and the thoughts and feelings of others. As a kid I was highly empathetic, and it's something I've struggled with my entire life. It never really felt li…

Oh yeah, high empathy is correlated with above average anxiety and depression. This is a well known psychological thing and there are plenty of articles and podcasts on it. So your intuition is correct. It's your inner child basically doing this because you want people to like you -- this is something you learned as a child and is now habit. In many cases being highly empathetic was a survival mechanism for the child.. who had to attend to someone else's needs above their own to stay safe.

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#132

Having a higher than average amount of empathy seems to be a disadvantage in many ways. It seems in many cases to be correlated with anxiety and depression. It can be difficult for people with high levels of empathy to recognize the boundaries between their own self and the thoughts and feelings of others. As a kid I was highly empathetic, and it's something I've struggled with my entire life. It never really felt li…

> my mind seems to always mirror the thoughts and feelings of those around me Sounds like you are confusing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enmeshment with empathy. Disclaimer: I'm not a psychologist.

It's absolutely enmeshment. I think enmeshment can emerge when children with higher than average levels of empathy aren't given the tools and support they need to deal with that.

(Also now a psychologist, so I could be off base. But they do at least seem to be related things.)

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having a higher than average amount of empathy seems to be a disadvantage in many ways. The grass may be greener, etc., but I am jealous - I would love your superpower and its tradeoffs; I'll give you mine. What a way to experience the world and people. (Though maybe jealousy is a form of empathy? ;) )

> The grass may be greener I think one thing that people don't realize is that with high levels of empathy you risk enmeshment with others, and a loss of your own self boundary. You don't know where there thoughts and pains end and where yours begin. It leads to desperately wanting to fix those around you, because you suffer as long as they suffer. And when you discover you can't fix everything, you either detach fro…

Thank you. I don't at all mean to be unempathetic myself to your experiences, and I'm sorry if it appears that way.

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#134
post #131

Having a higher than average amount of empathy seems to be a disadvantage in many ways. It seems in many cases to be correlated with anxiety and depression. It can be difficult for people with high levels of empathy to recognize the boundaries between their own self and the thoughts and feelings of others. As a kid I was highly empathetic, and it's something I've struggled with my entire life. It never really felt li…

Oh yeah, high empathy is correlated with above average anxiety and depression. This is a well known psychological thing and there are plenty of articles and podcasts on it. So your intuition is correct. It's your inner child basically doing this because you want people to like you -- this is something you learned as a child and is now habit. In many cases being highly empathetic was a survival mechanism for the child…

> In many cases being highly empathetic was a survival mechanism for the child.. who had to attend to someone else's needs above their own to stay safe.

This is 100% the case for me. My parents had children when they were very young, immature, and with major problems of their own, and I had to learn from a very young age to be highly attentive to their (very frequently shifting) emotional state. And then I had to become essentially an extra surrogate parent for my younger siblings in order to fill in the gaps that our parents weren't able to fulfill.

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#135
What are the chances this study is actually reproducible? What was the sample size?

Personally I’ve shifted to a default position of extreme skepticism regarding any study that makes any claim on any kind of human behavioral pattern. Burned too many times.

We might as well just debate astrological predictions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#136
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Willpower is not an effective way to deal with emotions, beyond the very short term - and then you will have blowback. Suppressing your emotions is a great way to have them take over your life and without you being conscious of it (you suppressed them!).

This struck a cord. Can I get you to elaborate?

Here is what I understand. I have no expertise, I have long studied and learned to apply these ideas, after trying the willpower approach for much of my life. Most of all, I encourage you to read what experts say; it's fundamental psychology (even if I denied it for a long time).

I have plenty of flaws but I am blessed with willpower, at a level that drives others crazy; I am always pushing the furthest, always the last to give up. Perhaps that's been built up because I used willpower to solve my problems most of my life; perhaps I used it because it was already a strength. I also used it for my emotions, as if they were an injured knee and I just had to tough it out and would run anyway. In hindsight, I was ignorant. I'm not sure if the following is what you seek, but feel free to ask questions and I'll try my best to answer.

Imagine there is a First Law of Emotional Dynamics, the Law of Preservation of Emotions. You cannot destroy them; you can transform them from one form to another (e.g., fear becomes anger). If you don't process them, they remain, sometimes lifelong (trauma, PTSD). Emotions are going to be there and they are going to have their say. If you try to suppress them, they will have their say without your input or consent. You will deal with them, in an unhealthy way (drinking and drugs are popular!) or in a healthy way. Your choice! The most practical tip I have is, replace unhealthy coping with healthy coping - the drive is genuine and normal; you just need a healthy way to take care of it.

Second Law: Input of emotions is from specific sources, internal and external. Output is by default toward the easiest target. Your boss screams at you, you supress your anger/fear/shame, you go home and find yourself yelling at whoever because they didn't turn off the light - a lot safer to yell at them than at your boss! Much more consequential and also typical: A child feels angry at their parents; the child can't express anger because their parents don't allow it, implicitly or otherwise; the child can't even blame the parents internally because a child is so dependent - for survival - on their parents and trusts whatever they say or imply - 'it can't be their fault'. So the child turns the anger inwardly, toward themselves, and feels shame (anger becomes shame, see the First Law). As they get older, their shame (an incredibly damaging emotion) becomes anger - they hate it - but they still don't turn it at their parents; they probably don't even realize the source. The anger is aimed at easiest targets around them, maybe their own children.

Third Law: Emotional energy is intangible, immeasurable, and indefinable, but it is real and it is limited. You have a limited capacity of emotional energy. I used to insist this was nonsense and that through willpower I would just keep going, and what was going to stop me? It was sort of like insisting that I was going to sprint a marathon. I can insist and have all the willpower I like but my body doesn't have the capacity and neither do our emotions. If you push past your capacity, there will be a rebound effect - I did this all the time, completely disregarding my emotions as a matter of course, and then I couldn't understand why, subsequently, I couldn't seem to function - 'I just need more willpower!'. You can imagine how that worked out. Now, I manage that capacity - I do things that build it up, I spend it selectively, I anticipate my limits, which I have learned about. Sometimes I do have to push myself beyond them, through willpower - if a loved one is seriously ill, then that is more important - but I am making a choice, I have built up my capacity over the years, and I plan for and manage the rebound in a healthy way.

......

But notice that I described my early perspective of emotion as like an injury, as if it's a malfunction or friction in the gears. More than anything else, it is you; it's the core of you, it's your actual experience of the world and your life, and it's also essential to judgment, instinct, intuition, etc. My early perspective was 180 degrees wrong: Have compassion for it, care for it, love it, it's important, it is your humanity. That change in perspective has transformed my experience of life, my ability to love, my perception and experience of the world, and also my instinct and intuition.

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#137

"Stress Makes the Most Empathetic People Less Kind" when others do not help them relieve their stress. Acting out when under stress is a call for help. Please do not go around controlling yourself, it only prevents change for the better, as they implied in the article; "But it helps to have scientific evidence to bolster the case for public and workplace policies that might make our lives less stressful — and thus, w…

We clearly need both. They form a positive feedback loop.

Ye can be compassionate to our friends and community, and by doing so, improve both

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#138
post #82
post #16

Quoted post unavailable.

That's just plain old-fashioned bigotry. Literally every culture on Earth has had some form of "never trust a " where the blank was whatever race, religion, nationality, tribe, ethnicity, etc was their neighbor or rival. Most people would treat it as a shameful thing from a bygone era if they had a grandparent tell them "never trust a ", it's quite unfortunate that you seem to agree with this sort of nationalistic bi…

Not parent, but agree with your first point, want to run some numbers on the second. According to https://www.compareyourcountry.org/social-expenditure (which is sourced from OECD) Australia and the US spend similar amounts of GDP on social programs. I'm gonna punt on the healthcare question - our healthcare is on average twice as expensive as everywhere else yet not any more effective, so it's a bit trickier to compare. Australia has universal health care, and we don't, anyhow. From a personal anecdote point of view, anyone I know who is/was broke (and working cheaper jobs that don't offer health care) continually puts off going to the doctor due to the great personal expense. That's the biggest thing as far as the "no safety net" meme goes - if you're working, you'd better not get sick. And this was after the introduction of the ACA.

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't sympathize with your viewpoint. Lots of research shows that it's hard to go against your natural state. You only have so much willpower - for most people it's a finite resource. In that context, your comment reads "Why don't you just decide to be better?". Do you think that the original commenter wanted to be this way? That it was a deliberate choice? Do you think it's that easy to change right now? I…

> Lots of research shows that it's hard to go against your natural state. How do you define 'natural state'? For example, my natural state is to be attracted to food when I'm hungry, to certain humans who I find sexually appealing, etc., but I don't grab those things when they pass by; it's not hard. My natural state is to be angry or upset when my client says certain things, but I don't punch them or cry. My natural…

You're cherry picking the easy cases.

Of course, most people can muster the strength to choose to pass on the desert or the tryst. I think the parent is referring to the hard cases, where, only in retrospect, you have the clarity to see that you made the wrong choice and wish you'd done otherwise.

But of course you can't. And if you rewound the universe to the exact same starting conditions you still couldn't.

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