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Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

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Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#101

Post by ameminator »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #7
Trasmatta wrote: post #2

Having a higher than average amount of empathy seems to be a disadvantage in many ways. It seems in many cases to be correlated with anxiety and depression. It can be difficult for people with high levels of empathy to recognize the boundaries between their own self and the thoughts and feelings of others. As a kid I was highly empathetic, and it's something I've struggled with my entire life. It never really felt li…

Don't numb it, master it and let it lead under control. Empathy is an incredible virtue, but it must be disciplined. I don't know enough neuroscience to know what the "right dorsolateral prefrontal cortex" is exactly but I know that you can over-ride/master it with reason and discipline. So I think there's something more to people allowing their better nature to slip under stress than simple brain chemicals. A colone…

I really don't sympathize with your viewpoint. Lots of research shows that it's hard to go against your natural state. You only have so much willpower - for most people it's a finite resource.

In that context, your comment reads "Why don't you just decide to be better?". Do you think that the original commenter wanted to be this way? That it was a deliberate choice? Do you think it's that easy to change right now? I won't go on, but your comment came off as condescending - whatever your intentions are.

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#102

Post by SpodGaju »

cgriswald wrote: post #97
SpodGaju wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you! We have domesticated wolves so much that we call them dogs now. So we could actually call dogs "disciplined wolves", yes? Like a "wolf" behaves differently than a "discipline wolf", "empathy" will express differently than "disciplined empathy". It is inauthentic. You cannot change something and say it is the same thing. Did that help? If you are interesting, Chuang Tzu, a Daoist sage, had a lot to say abou…

A wolf behaves differently than another wolf. Yet they are both wolves. Even the same wolf expresses differently in different contexts or in arbitrarily similar contexts at different times. Yet he never stops being a wolf. Even a wolf in a cage is a wolf. To say otherwise is to say there is no such thing as wolf or that there is a single platonic wolf and all other wolves are inauthentic. Either of these may be true,…

> To say otherwise is to say there is no such thing as wolf

I am not saying otherwise. There is no such thing as a wolf.

Yet there is.

Our language is a tool we use to categorize an infinite reality. Like you said, there are an infinite amount of wolves, but we reduce them using language. There is nothing wrong with this until we start thinking our language is the reality.

So where is the border between wolf and dog? If A wolf is nice too a human do we suddenly call it a dog? Does not the very distinction of a wolf and a dog rely, not on the species, but on the human? Does a dog think still think it is a wolf? Is a dog just a wolf that tricks us so it can get free food and shelter?

We do the same thing with empathy. By defining it with language we reduce it and confine it which it cannot be reduced or confined. Like everything else, empathy is infinite and unlimited in its expression.

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#103

Post by thirdwhrldPzz »

ameminator wrote: post #101
nonrandomstring wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't numb it, master it and let it lead under control. Empathy is an incredible virtue, but it must be disciplined. I don't know enough neuroscience to know what the "right dorsolateral prefrontal cortex" is exactly but I know that you can over-ride/master it with reason and discipline. So I think there's something more to people allowing their better nature to slip under stress than simple brain chemicals. A colone…

I really don't sympathize with your viewpoint. Lots of research shows that it's hard to go against your natural state. You only have so much willpower - for most people it's a finite resource. In that context, your comment reads "Why don't you just decide to be better?". Do you think that the original commenter wanted to be this way? That it was a deliberate choice? Do you think it's that easy to change right now? I…

Our natural state is change even after death. You’re changing without even willing it right now, in ways you’ll need to adapt to sooner or later.

All you seem to need to change is the grasp on the idea who you are now is eternal.

Your comment comes off like the world must now stand still for you. Hard pass.

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#105

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

Trasmatta wrote: post #52
SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m deeply sorry that you didn’t have the necessary support network to navigate your empathy when you were young. Now that you’re older, have you had any success in developing navigational skills and regaining your levels of empathy?

Thank you! I've only begun to put the pieces in the last couple of years while trying to figure out why my behavior is the way it is. Haven't made a ton of progress, but knowledge feels like a good first step. Planning to try to find a therapist, but one of the challenges is that many people in this position apparently avoid therapy, because they fear empathizing too much with the therapist, rather than focusing on t…

That makes sense, thanks for the insight. I’ve had similar concerns in the past and it seems when I stuck with licensed workers (licensed social workers, clinical psychologists, and psychiatrists) they seemed well trained to wall themselves off emotionally from me (refuse to give personal information, refuse to visibly react to things I say, very careful when expressing an opinion, refuses to suggest an interpretation of who I am or who they are). It’s also apparently deeply unprofessional to be unable to avoid enmeshment, including the responsibility of referring a client away from oneself if one notices too much emotional closeness. I’m not saying this to convince you either way but I hope this data is useful to you. Thanks for your vulnerability in talking openly about this.

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#106

Post by RobRivera »

Trasmatta wrote: post #2

Having a higher than average amount of empathy seems to be a disadvantage in many ways. It seems in many cases to be correlated with anxiety and depression. It can be difficult for people with high levels of empathy to recognize the boundaries between their own self and the thoughts and feelings of others. As a kid I was highly empathetic, and it's something I've struggled with my entire life. It never really felt li…

consider the idea that with empathy you can effectively communicate and persuade others better as you can gain insight into who THEY are and how THEY feel. its an attribute necessary for EFFECTIVE leadership, not of the brainwashing manipulation kind, but of the trusting kind. takes learning

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#107

Post by nonrandomstring »

treeman79 wrote: post #47
nonrandomstring wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't numb it, master it and let it lead under control. Empathy is an incredible virtue, but it must be disciplined. I don't know enough neuroscience to know what the "right dorsolateral prefrontal cortex" is exactly but I know that you can over-ride/master it with reason and discipline. So I think there's something more to people allowing their better nature to slip under stress than simple brain chemicals. A colone…

Good sentiment. But when your being hurt emotionally and physically most days. Numbness becomes your only real defense.

> Good sentiment. But when your being hurt emotionally and physically most days. Numbness becomes your only real defense.

What you are alluding to sounds like abuse. As you can see in this thread I am being chastised for offering unsolicited, condescending advice about things I know nothing about - as if the vicarious snipers knew anything about my experiences or expertise, and as if my tone was out of place here.

If your comment pertains to yourself I'd heartily recommend you read [1][2] below. People are using the word "numb". That could mean a lot of things, drugs, alcohol, or other indulgences. But there are specific dangers with the coping behaviour that clinicians call "dissociation". I wish you well.

[1] https://www.survivingmypast.net/dissociation-protective-as-a...

[2] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-savvy-psychologi...

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#108

Post by RobRivera »

ameminator wrote: post #101
nonrandomstring wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't numb it, master it and let it lead under control. Empathy is an incredible virtue, but it must be disciplined. I don't know enough neuroscience to know what the "right dorsolateral prefrontal cortex" is exactly but I know that you can over-ride/master it with reason and discipline. So I think there's something more to people allowing their better nature to slip under stress than simple brain chemicals. A colone…

I really don't sympathize with your viewpoint. Lots of research shows that it's hard to go against your natural state. You only have so much willpower - for most people it's a finite resource. In that context, your comment reads "Why don't you just decide to be better?". Do you think that the original commenter wanted to be this way? That it was a deliberate choice? Do you think it's that easy to change right now? I…

it is a finite resource which is why meditation and training is required for mastery.

people are capable of deciding to be better when they've the faculties and depth of experience and wisdom. Ever manage to troubleshoot a faulty canopy mid fall, or make a decision to cut the main and deploy the reserve parachute? you dont get to that mode of operation overnight.

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#109

Post by idontknowifican »

cgriswald wrote: post #88
idontknowifican wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Imagine having direct experience with these things, genuinely sharing your hard-earned experience of what works for you in the language you have available to you, and then some third-party who doesn't know anything about you misrepresents your statement and then tells you to "shut the fuck up about mental health problems you don't have."

the OP has mastered their emotional response and will be fine by their own reckoning. i wouldn’t be so direct if the person hadn’t insisted they could handle it. i was in fact respecting their autonomy by treating them in the exact way they said they prefer.

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#110

Post by laurent92 »

jlokier wrote: post #42
nonrandomstring wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't numb it, master it and let it lead under control. Empathy is an incredible virtue, but it must be disciplined. I don't know enough neuroscience to know what the "right dorsolateral prefrontal cortex" is exactly but I know that you can over-ride/master it with reason and discipline. So I think there's something more to people allowing their better nature to slip under stress than simple brain chemicals. A colone…

> you to retain dignity, self-sacrifice, and thinking about _them_ more than ever > That's precisely the time when you need to dig deep and let _reason_ take the lead I would say when self-sacrifice, thinking of others first is what's called for, that's actually empathy leading, at its most high-functioning. Empathy is taking the lead, but it's somehow a deeper kind, qualitatively distinct from day to day sympathy an…

> you thought was rather heartless day to day

It’s the generalization that is wrong. People are not permanently one way. They fluctuate. They are infatuated at 20, struggling for money at 30, tired at 40, getting things in the correct order at 50, disconnected at 60… They make different conclusions about life. They may save a kid at 30 and not when they themselves have a family. Or the opposite. Generalization is erroneous.

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