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Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

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Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#111

Post by dukeofdoom »

robluxus wrote: post #15
dukeofdoom wrote: post #10

Psychologist measured that people differ by personality, and can be roughly grouped into 16 categories based on traits. I used to think everyone was more or less the same. I'm not sure if 16 is the correct number. But my understanding of the world has been helped by the concept that there are people that do and act in particular patterns. For example some of the battles on twitter that are going on, are just extensio…

Are you by chance referring to the 16 Meyers-Briggs types? It's been claimed that it's less useful than it is popular: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator

Yes I was. But I'm also aware of the Big 5 personality traits. Openness, Conscientiousness, Extraversion, Neuroticism and Agreeableness. Which people seem to statistically group with some low or high mix of these traits.

Knowing that someone is more neurotic than 99% of other people, would seem on surface be useful in predicting how they might react to new or novel situations.

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#112

Post by flatuencer »

TameAntelope wrote: post #50
Trasmatta wrote: post #2

Having a higher than average amount of empathy seems to be a disadvantage in many ways. It seems in many cases to be correlated with anxiety and depression. It can be difficult for people with high levels of empathy to recognize the boundaries between their own self and the thoughts and feelings of others. As a kid I was highly empathetic, and it's something I've struggled with my entire life. It never really felt li…

> the boundaries between their own self and the thoughts and feelings of others. The perceived thoughts and feelings of others, and that's critical. You don't know the minds of the people around you, and presuming some kind of negative experience on the part of others is not often accurate. The problem with empathy would be if you presume everyone to be having a bad time when it seems like, to you, they should be hav…

You _can_ get a fairly accurate sense of how people are feeling or what they are thinking, and some people are better at this than others. Call it intuition, body language, or whatever else, it doesn't inherently make it arrogance. Being mindful of how you could be incorrect in what, at the end of the day, are assumptions that require confirmation, is important; without this is where the true arrogance lies.

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#113

Post by TameAntelope »

flatuencer wrote: post #112
TameAntelope wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the boundaries between their own self and the thoughts and feelings of others. The perceived thoughts and feelings of others, and that's critical. You don't know the minds of the people around you, and presuming some kind of negative experience on the part of others is not often accurate. The problem with empathy would be if you presume everyone to be having a bad time when it seems like, to you, they should be hav…

You _can_ get a fairly accurate sense of how people are feeling or what they are thinking, and some people are better at this than others. Call it intuition, body language, or whatever else, it doesn't inherently make it arrogance. Being mindful of how you could be incorrect in what, at the end of the day, are assumptions that require confirmation, is important; without this is where the true arrogance lies.

I think assuming how people feel and what people are thinking without asking them, giving them agency, is nearly the very pinnacle of arrogance. further, this can be some of the most damaging behavior you participate in on a daily basis, both to you and to the person you do it to.

I cannot overstate how toxic to your relationships and to yourself this behavior is. You need to let people express themselves, and listen when they do. That's about as close to a "prime directive" I can think of right now, when it comes to human interaction.

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#115

Post by fleddr »

cletus wrote: post #16

Quoted post unavailable.

Fargo season 4 has a scene where this Italian mobster goes...

"I think I'm finally starting to understand this country. You say one thing, yet do the complete opposite".

It's a bulls-eye for me. Americans are fake, not genuine, dramatic/hysterical and hypocritical like no other culture I've ever seen.

They also have quite a few positive traits. And any other culture you pick, including mine, too has negatives and positives. It's not a contest but we should be able to reason about it. It's fair game.

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#116

Post by rafaelero »

pfisherman wrote: post #24
Trasmatta wrote: post #2

Having a higher than average amount of empathy seems to be a disadvantage in many ways. It seems in many cases to be correlated with anxiety and depression. It can be difficult for people with high levels of empathy to recognize the boundaries between their own self and the thoughts and feelings of others. As a kid I was highly empathetic, and it's something I've struggled with my entire life. It never really felt li…

> It seems in many cases to be correlated with anxiety and depression. So is intelligence. However on the balance intelligence is a pretty significant advantage. Empathy can be a super power for those who are able to control it - one that can be used for good or evil. Think high EQ, natural political instincts, very persuasive, ability to push emotional states onto people. The hypersensitivity you mention is the flip…

Intelligence is not positively correlated with anxiety. That's just a meme.

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#117

Post by HWR_14 »

RobRivera wrote: post #108
ameminator wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't sympathize with your viewpoint. Lots of research shows that it's hard to go against your natural state. You only have so much willpower - for most people it's a finite resource. In that context, your comment reads "Why don't you just decide to be better?". Do you think that the original commenter wanted to be this way? That it was a deliberate choice? Do you think it's that easy to change right now? I…

it is a finite resource which is why meditation and training is required for mastery. people are capable of deciding to be better when they've the faculties and depth of experience and wisdom. Ever manage to troubleshoot a faulty canopy mid fall, or make a decision to cut the main and deploy the reserve parachute? you dont get to that mode of operation overnight.

You're talking about skills, not willpower. Every study I've seen suggests that willpower is not trainable. Maybe it is, that would be great.

Note, that you can train altruistic and empathetic appearing behaviors. So yes, even though you're all starving, the men eat first. Yes, you are going to risk your life doing X. Yes, you are going to tell everyone its okay and appear calm even while you're panicking.

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#118

Post by wolverine876 »

ameminator wrote: post #101
nonrandomstring wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't numb it, master it and let it lead under control. Empathy is an incredible virtue, but it must be disciplined. I don't know enough neuroscience to know what the "right dorsolateral prefrontal cortex" is exactly but I know that you can over-ride/master it with reason and discipline. So I think there's something more to people allowing their better nature to slip under stress than simple brain chemicals. A colone…

I really don't sympathize with your viewpoint. Lots of research shows that it's hard to go against your natural state. You only have so much willpower - for most people it's a finite resource. In that context, your comment reads "Why don't you just decide to be better?". Do you think that the original commenter wanted to be this way? That it was a deliberate choice? Do you think it's that easy to change right now? I…

> Lots of research shows that it's hard to go against your natural state.

How do you define 'natural state'? For example, my natural state is to be attracted to food when I'm hungry, to certain humans who I find sexually appealing, etc., but I don't grab those things when they pass by; it's not hard. My natural state is to be angry or upset when my client says certain things, but I don't punch them or cry. My natural state is to be an illiterate, innumerate nomadic hunter-gatherer, like 200,000+ years of ancestors, yet here I am on my fat ass in front of a computer.

People process their emotions in many ways, healthy and unhealthy. It's our choice what we each do with them. Emotions are exceptionally valuable to judgement, intuition, and to your experience of the world. They are your experience of the world, for the most part.

> your comment came off as condescending

I'm not the commenter, but for another POV, that wasn't my impression.

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#119

Post by wolverine876 »

HWR_14 wrote: post #117
RobRivera wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it is a finite resource which is why meditation and training is required for mastery. people are capable of deciding to be better when they've the faculties and depth of experience and wisdom. Ever manage to troubleshoot a faulty canopy mid fall, or make a decision to cut the main and deploy the reserve parachute? you dont get to that mode of operation overnight.

You're talking about skills, not willpower. Every study I've seen suggests that willpower is not trainable. Maybe it is, that would be great. Note, that you can train altruistic and empathetic appearing behaviors. So yes, even though you're all starving, the men eat first. Yes, you are going to risk your life doing X. Yes, you are going to tell everyone its okay and appear calm even while you're panicking.

Willpower is not an effective way to deal with emotions, beyond the very short term - and then you will have blowback. Suppressing your emotions is a great way to have them take over your life and without you being conscious of it (you suppressed them!).

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#120

Post by wolverine876 »

Trasmatta wrote: post #30
nonrandomstring wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't numb it, master it and let it lead under control. Empathy is an incredible virtue, but it must be disciplined. I don't know enough neuroscience to know what the "right dorsolateral prefrontal cortex" is exactly but I know that you can over-ride/master it with reason and discipline. So I think there's something more to people allowing their better nature to slip under stress than simple brain chemicals. A colone…

> Don't numb it, master it and let it lead under control Numbing it was never a conscious decision, it was an automatic learned response to pain after years / decades. Now that I'm more conscious of what's happening, I can begin to work with it, but personality traits like this are generally highly stable and resistant to change. Which isn't to say there's nothing that can be done about it, just that's challenging (a…

> personality traits like this are generally highly stable and resistant to change

From one person's experience with other personality traits, it's both hard but just lots of hard work and determination.

> and in the process, you may be losing some of the benefits of that learned behavior

You will gain so much more, you can't even imagine now. You will look back and laugh at worrying about what you were going to lose. It's like forgetting how to run a super-marathon while learning that you have wings and how to fly.

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