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Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

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Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#21

Post by catchclose8919 »

mountainriver wrote: post #3
Trasmatta wrote: post #2

Having a higher than average amount of empathy seems to be a disadvantage in many ways. It seems in many cases to be correlated with anxiety and depression. It can be difficult for people with high levels of empathy to recognize the boundaries between their own self and the thoughts and feelings of others. As a kid I was highly empathetic, and it's something I've struggled with my entire life. It never really felt li…

Feel the same way as you, and I had to withdrawal as a child and now have mental disorders in the spectrum of schizophrenia. So anecdotally, I imagine that’s correct. The loss of boundaries thing is very real, I know there are some upsides to it but most days it’s hard to not feel like a curse

Just FYI "schizoid personality +/- disorder" has absolutely nothing to do with (the spectrum of) schizophrenia, they're about different things on different systems on different axes etc.

And yeah, psychologist REALLY suck at naming things!

And one of the reason to avoid ever discussing about "schizoid personality" with people who aren't trained psychologists since they're 90% likely to think you're talking about the wrong thing :|

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#22

Post by peakaboo »

Trasmatta wrote: post #2

Having a higher than average amount of empathy seems to be a disadvantage in many ways. It seems in many cases to be correlated with anxiety and depression. It can be difficult for people with high levels of empathy to recognize the boundaries between their own self and the thoughts and feelings of others. As a kid I was highly empathetic, and it's something I've struggled with my entire life. It never really felt li…

You shouldn't numb it, that's crazy.

The best people on this planet care about others. The worst turn into Putin.

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#23

Post by mikepurvis »

fendy3002 wrote: post #5
Trasmatta wrote: post #2

Having a higher than average amount of empathy seems to be a disadvantage in many ways. It seems in many cases to be correlated with anxiety and depression. It can be difficult for people with high levels of empathy to recognize the boundaries between their own self and the thoughts and feelings of others. As a kid I was highly empathetic, and it's something I've struggled with my entire life. It never really felt li…

Yeah, I was stressed out when I accidentally make other people mad. Now I just apologize and move on, if they're having meltdown I just assume they're assholes and move on. Especially true when driving.

It's really a balance— you can do your best to do right by other people, to do what they're asking of you and behave in prosocial ways, but any therapist will tell you that ultimately other people's feelings are their responsibility to manage and work through, and not yours.

Traditional CBT says this is even the case in romantic relationships, though EFT is a bit more nuanced on this— you're not directly responsible for your partner's feelings and emotions (you don't owe them an apology when you cheat on them in their dream), but understanding their emotions is an opportunity to be a better and more supportive partner, which can be massively enriching to the relationship if both parties are fully committed to doing the work and have the language to communicate effectively about it.

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#24

Post by pfisherman »

Trasmatta wrote: post #2

Having a higher than average amount of empathy seems to be a disadvantage in many ways. It seems in many cases to be correlated with anxiety and depression. It can be difficult for people with high levels of empathy to recognize the boundaries between their own self and the thoughts and feelings of others. As a kid I was highly empathetic, and it's something I've struggled with my entire life. It never really felt li…

> It seems in many cases to be correlated with anxiety and depression.

So is intelligence. However on the balance intelligence is a pretty significant advantage.

Empathy can be a super power for those who are able to control it - one that can be used for good or evil. Think high EQ, natural political instincts, very persuasive, ability to push emotional states onto people.

The hypersensitivity you mention is the flip side of that coin.

SPD and paranoia is more like seeing patterns in the noise. I think pattern matching is a big component of empathy, but I do think you can have highly sensitive pattern matching facility that does not translate across domains.

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#25

Post by joshyeager »

SpodGaju wrote: post #17
nonrandomstring wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't numb it, master it and let it lead under control. Empathy is an incredible virtue, but it must be disciplined. I don't know enough neuroscience to know what the "right dorsolateral prefrontal cortex" is exactly but I know that you can over-ride/master it with reason and discipline. So I think there's something more to people allowing their better nature to slip under stress than simple brain chemicals. A colone…

> Don't numb it, master it and let it lead under control. Empathy is an incredible virtue, but it must be disciplined. Disciplined empathy is no longer empathy. And it is no longer virtuous. You are close to understanding, but keep going. Giving birth and nourishing, making without possessing, expecting nothing in return. To grow, yet not to control: This is the mysterious virtue. Chapter 10, Dao De Ching

Rather than saying "You are close to understanding, but keep going", it would be more helpful to explain why you think that disciplined empathy is no longer empathy.

I agree with the previous poster, but I'm curious to learn what you mean.

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#26

Post by jimmyjazz14 »

robluxus wrote: post #15
dukeofdoom wrote: post #10

Psychologist measured that people differ by personality, and can be roughly grouped into 16 categories based on traits. I used to think everyone was more or less the same. I'm not sure if 16 is the correct number. But my understanding of the world has been helped by the concept that there are people that do and act in particular patterns. For example some of the battles on twitter that are going on, are just extensio…

Are you by chance referring to the 16 Meyers-Briggs types? It's been claimed that it's less useful than it is popular: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator

Yeah I don't think Meyer-Briggs has much standing these days.

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#27

Post by srcreigh »

> To reach this conclusion, researchers asked the participants to make donations before they were asked to undertake a stressful task; they were asked to donate things again after the task was over. While people who were found to have high empathy donated more than the others did before undergoing the stressful task, their charitability declined sharply afterward.

Isn’t asking for 2 unexpected donations in short succession a major confounding factor?

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#28

Post by kenjackson »

Trasmatta wrote: post #2

Having a higher than average amount of empathy seems to be a disadvantage in many ways. It seems in many cases to be correlated with anxiety and depression. It can be difficult for people with high levels of empathy to recognize the boundaries between their own self and the thoughts and feelings of others. As a kid I was highly empathetic, and it's something I've struggled with my entire life. It never really felt li…

I was like you in being extremely empathetic. What had helped me is to focus on longer term outcomes for people rather than short term. That really gave my empathy more perspective and allowed me to see that the “hard” thing that may not seem as empathetic today is the right thing for the people involved in the future.

Admittedly, this might just be me creating a mechanism to cope, but it seems to be effective.

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#29

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

tartoran wrote: post #19
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that it's a disadvantage only from the self-centered perspective that modern society encourages us to cultivate. Empathy is an incredibly useful tool for humans that exist as part of a community, but our societies are structured to benefit those who seek to maximally exploit others, our role models are sociopaths, and the cultural narrative is that our only value is either in being them or being useful…

Empathy is great for the society, a burden for the individual. Very empathetic people have a hard time minding their own path in life for they get caught in the suffering of others. Regardless of setbacks and disilussionments, empathetic people feel good when helping others.

> Empathy is great for the society, a burden for the individual.

But society is good for the individual, so supporting that society that supports them is mutually beneficial.

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#30

Post by Trasmatta »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #7
Trasmatta wrote: post #2

Having a higher than average amount of empathy seems to be a disadvantage in many ways. It seems in many cases to be correlated with anxiety and depression. It can be difficult for people with high levels of empathy to recognize the boundaries between their own self and the thoughts and feelings of others. As a kid I was highly empathetic, and it's something I've struggled with my entire life. It never really felt li…

Don't numb it, master it and let it lead under control. Empathy is an incredible virtue, but it must be disciplined. I don't know enough neuroscience to know what the "right dorsolateral prefrontal cortex" is exactly but I know that you can over-ride/master it with reason and discipline. So I think there's something more to people allowing their better nature to slip under stress than simple brain chemicals. A colone…

> Don't numb it, master it and let it lead under control

Numbing it was never a conscious decision, it was an automatic learned response to pain after years / decades. Now that I'm more conscious of what's happening, I can begin to work with it, but personality traits like this are generally highly stable and resistant to change. Which isn't to say there's nothing that can be done about it, just that's challenging (and in the process, you may be losing some of the benefits of that learned behavior).

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