Live data from Hacker News

FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

ftc.gov

181–190 of 610 posts

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#181

Good, but the situation is so much worse than just this. Most Americans could just use the IRS Free File system, which the article mentions, instead of ever giving money to Intuit or H&R Block ever again. But we don’t heavily advertise that system, because that would encourage people to use it, and if you’re going that far, you might as well let the IRS build its own tax software with all your information prefilled l…

I tried to make this point in the other thread, so let me take another stab at it here. You say this like it's just a thing that people can do. But the people you're telling to "Just do this" have already been trained to be terrified of the IRS. Many of them are currently paying huge fines due to missing their returns in prior years. Any small mistake can hang you when you're impoverished, precisely because you don't…

This is quite true, even excluding service workers. Every tax season I have conversations with bright, well-to-do, college-educated people who seem to live in terminal fear of the IRS. They're absolutely terrified that if they get one tiny thing wrong during the tax filing process, they will immediately be arrested and shipped off to prison. So they always pay someone to file their taxes, even if they're simple. It's mind-boggling.

The irony is that -- as you said -- the IRS hits people of modest income harder, because the IRS doesn't have the resources to take on many battles with wealthy people who can afford lawyers. This means the IRS mostly goes after easy targets who won't fight back. Yet another tax on being poor.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#182

I'm working with other contributors on https://ustaxes.org , an open source tax filing webapp https://github.com/ustaxes/UsTaxes . Currently, many Federal tax forms are supported, as well as tax filing for the state of Illinois. Filing for Oregon and California is under development!

Is there a CLA? If so, does anything prevent the rights holder(s) from closing the project and pivoting it towards a for-profit business?

I'd like to contribute, but don't feel like building someone's business for free.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#183
I know, I know, there’s so many dark patterns in TurboTax that it’s cliche to point them out…

…but man, this was a particularly egregious example I came across this year.

https://imgur.com/ojpLvRW

You can pay for TurboTax using your refund…with an additional $39 processing fee. That is just wild.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently, it's states that contributors live in because our resources are limited

Seems like one could setup an org/corp and get funding from those states to implement tax filing code.

Yeah, we have been considering setting up a nonprofit org. I'm not sure if we have the scale to justify it yet, but it's sort of an open question.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently, it's states that contributors live in because our resources are limited

Seems like one could setup an org/corp and get funding from those states to implement tax filing code.

Many states already have ways to file online for free. For example, Illinois: https://www2.illinois.gov/rev/programs/mytax/Pages/il-1040.a...

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried to make this point in the other thread, so let me take another stab at it here. You say this like it's just a thing that people can do. But the people you're telling to "Just do this" have already been trained to be terrified of the IRS. Many of them are currently paying huge fines due to missing their returns in prior years. Any small mistake can hang you when you're impoverished, precisely because you don't…

> But the people you're telling to "Just do this" have already been trained to be terrified of the IRS. Many of them are currently paying huge fines due to missing their returns in prior years. Any small mistake can hang you when you're impoverished, precisely because you don't have any room for error. Why do you say that? I've never encountered people who were terrified nor have I read about it. How many people are…

My wife and her parents. Not her sisters though, admittedly.

It's possible that I'm just reacting to a biased sample of people. But my impression was that this is a common mindset for a nontrivial subset of the population. Being afraid of doing something wrong on your government forms isn't really an irrational fear. Anyone who's owned a car in Chicago will tell you that the city's goal is to extract as many thousands of dollars from you as possible – it was still one of my worst financial decisions of all time. And that wasn't even taxes.

The broader point is that "dealing with the government" is a big messy bucket that people usually want to pay a janitorial service to dispose of. Even things like "being reminded to file your taxes right now" is valuable in that situation. Most people don't have a clue what day they need to file by. They don't learn it in school, and their parents either don't know or didn't bother to teach them.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course the government could out-advertise them. It'd be like Google advertising its own products on its search engine -- the government controls all end-user tax related communications. They just don't want to because someone bribed them to not do so.

Everyone uses Google. How many more people see TurboTax's ads vs. government "tax related communications?"

Every single tax payer when they get paid, or when they pay their tax bill each year.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds awesome. How does the user handle the actual filing? I assume you don't have any way to provide e-filing, so would people have to print this out and mail it?

Yeah, currently the user would print out the PDF generated by the site and mail it in to the IRS. E-filing is on the roadmap, but registering as an E-file provider is a pretty complex process. One of the options we were thinking about is scraping and automatically filling in fields on the free fillable forms site https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/free-file-fillable-form...

I worked on designing and implementing e-file a few years back for a startup. Happy to answer any questions or give any advice if y'all want it

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#189

I'm working with other contributors on https://ustaxes.org , an open source tax filing webapp https://github.com/ustaxes/UsTaxes . Currently, many Federal tax forms are supported, as well as tax filing for the state of Illinois. Filing for Oregon and California is under development!

Is there a CLA? If so, does anything prevent the rights holder(s) from closing the project and pivoting it towards a for-profit business? I'd like to contribute, but don't feel like building someone's business for free.

The project has an AGPL license if that's what you're wondering. We figured many people would feel the same way

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there a way to do your taxes without paying any money? Do them yourself. The IRS has guidance and resources for those who are interested [1]. [1] https://www.irs.gov/filing/free-file-do-your-federal-taxes-f...

You can absolutely do your own taxes, either on paper and mail the forms or (possibly) via the Free File Fillable forms mentioned on the page you linked (as long as you don't hit a corner case). The Free File Fillable forms page [0] says "Make sure we fully support the forms you need" and links to another page with a lengthy list of limitations [1]. So yeah, we're in a place where the IRS says taxpayers "should file…

Among unsupported forms, the validation step in Free Fillable Forms also has a number or bugs that prevents filing due to phantom arithmetic errors. It's beyond frustrating filling out everything on FFF, then needing to copy everything onto a third party service just to pay for the privilege of having my data harvested by a shady company and electronically filed exactly as it would have otherwise. The current situation is unworkable.
Post reply on HN