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Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

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Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#571
post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> one could do it to anyone else they disagree with, and that might understandably make people uncomfortable That's why you audit your dependencies and have tests right? Right?

It is one of the reasons why you should . But... * Many don't. * Even for those that do something might slip through the cracks, particularly given how deep and wide some dependency trees go in the current JS ecosystem. * Such attacks would still cause you problems once your audit spots one: you now have to hold back a version, perhaps back-porting security fixes, at least until you can migrate to another package or…

> Such attacks would still cause you problems once your audit spots one: you now have to hold back a version

That's not a problem caused by this "attack". You should assume that any open source project you use is unmaintained unless you have a support contract and that it will never get any updates again. A lot of these packages have a bus factor of 1 with no backup plan.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#572
post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the reply -- seems there's some misunderstandings. Details below. > people who can't swallow the cost will pour in their last savings for a few more hours of warmth Where I live, people aren't that short sighted. They bought all the toilet paper, planning months ahead. > Those who can't will start rioting, Eh, no. Not when they know the higher prices are for saving people in Ukraine. But if they didn't kno…

>Where I live, people aren't that short sighted. They bought all the toilet paper, planning months ahead. 1. While I acknowledge that people you talk about exist, I suspect that they're predominantly middle class, not the poor (ie. "people who can't swallow the cost"). If you don't have a baseline amount of wealth, then it's hard to have a car to go to costco to buy those 48 packs of toilet paper, and if your home is…

Sorry for the late reply. Maybe you'll never read this?

>> They bought all the toilet paper

> 1. While I acknowledge that [...]

> 2. You can hoard toilet paper but not gas.

Yes that's true. Actually my comparison here wasn't totally serious. But you're right that the state and energy companies, and the citizens, would need to co-operate a bit for this to work. Or the state could raise the gas and oil prices, for a household that has used too much. And the state could calculate the prices, so heating would work out okay I believe. Combined with jeans and sometimes a jacket and winter cap, indoors.

>> [People wouldn't get angry when] they know the higher prices are for saving people in Ukraine

> see my other comment on revealed preferences vs stated preferences

Hmm. Two things: 1) revealed preferences, for example by saying one would care about the environment, but continuing buying environmentally destructive things. This is "passive aggressive", in that they aren't actively trying to sabotage anything -- they're just continuing life as usual, in the old more comfortable ways, not doing what they said they would.

Or 2) revealed preference, by actively protesting against the new policies -- demonstrations, even riots and smashing windows etc. But this is lots of effort. Personally, I'd be surprised if people were willing to spend time demonstrating, instead of just accepting the fact: gas and oil now cost more, so I'll put on another jumper. -- If they go outdoors to protest, they'll need to put on even more clothes! And travel somewhere. That's more work.

Meaning, raising the gas prices, and explaining why, could work pretty well I'm thinking. -- Even if people are dissatisfied, although they said they were ok with it, they are unlikely to protest or riot -- because that's more work, than just accepting the new situation?

>> If the politicians make it clear that it's for stopping the war, then, there'd be some social pressure for saving energy.

> Why's that not happening right now?

I don't think people see a relationship between their cars and indoor temperature, and how much bombs Putin has. Most humans are already poor at abstract thinking and seeing anything else than what's in front of their nose -- and this, with cars and bombs, is a slightly complex relationship? Plus, humans being a bit lazy and selfish, they wouldn't want to think in this direction at all?

I think the government and newspapers, would need to explain for and motivate the people.

>> In Europe, there are more buses and subways, and fewer people have cars.

> Doesn't that argument work in the opposite direction? ie. "there are more buses and subways, and fewer people have cars", so people are already taking public transit. From there, it's pretty hard to reduce fuel consumption even further as the people who are driving probably really need it?

I'd think it's simpler to reduce fuel consumption -- there're subway lines built already, and possible to increase the subway train frequency, without having to spend 20 years building new subway lines.

Most, or everyone, I know with a car, use it for convenience, to save time. Probably I'd done this me too, if I had kids to drive from and to school. And I would have been happy if the city where I live, introduced school buses, or built a ride sharing website, so I could let others go with me in my car and save fuel.

(I also replied to a sibling comment of yours, maybe you're interested: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30803577 -- did you know that there's just 1.1 - 1.2 people on average, in a car on the way to work. But if people shared their cars, 50% or more fuel could be saved.)

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just said "I'm cancelling virtue signalers", you didn't make any arguments I could judge based on their merit. Ergo, you're just whistling for your crowd to cheer you on. Pure virtue signaling.

What the fuck are you talking about? Who is my "crowd" you are talking of? Judge me by my own merits, not by some other random people you picked. Edit: After showing this to her, my wife straight out told me that you are psychotic ("einen an der Dattel haben") and that I should not argue with random internet people. Thinking about it, she is right.

So you need validation for your virtue signaling? Besides, it's "einen an der Waffel haben". Not the most brainy crowd you virtue signal towards.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#574

To be honest, I'm annoyed by the benign protestware messages when they start to get in the way of using the software, particularly on mobile. I was looking at the isomorphic git documentation the other day, and noticed that their "#BlackLivesMatter #DefundThePolice" banner scrolls under the rest of the content, leaving this annoying gap that takes up screen real estate, especially in landscape mode on a phone.[0] Wha…

What's the point of the thin black bar we put at the top of HN periodically? It sounds like the underlying issue is insufficient testing of the UI layout with the new content, not the fact that there is new content.

Given I've never in my many years using HN noticed it, I'd say it's significantly less obtrusive.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it didn't help much, and so what? Are you saying we shouldn't even try?

Precisely. We should not try things which, blatantly obviously, do not work, because it distracts and takes precious resources from things that actually do work. That applies to BLM in the same way as it applied to covid, as well as climate change and million other things. Virtue-signalling theater is distracting at best and harmful at worst.

I think virtue signalling should actually be happening more, not in the sense "I pretend to care", but in the sense "Those are the values I stand for".

I see a lot of ambiguous statements these days, from too many people. People not wanting to "take sides", but in reality not yet willing to say they only stand for their personal interests, if not for a return to the law of the fittest.

What do you stand for?

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