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Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

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Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#421

Post by shadowgovt »

baryphonic wrote: post #262

To be honest, I'm annoyed by the benign protestware messages when they start to get in the way of using the software, particularly on mobile. I was looking at the isomorphic git documentation the other day, and noticed that their "#BlackLivesMatter #DefundThePolice" banner scrolls under the rest of the content, leaving this annoying gap that takes up screen real estate, especially in landscape mode on a phone.[0] Wha…

What's the point of the thin black bar we put at the top of HN periodically?

It sounds like the underlying issue is insufficient testing of the UI layout with the new content, not the fact that there is new content.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#422

Post by shadowgovt »

dunkelheit wrote: post #390
cuteboy19 wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear if you are not paying them, there should be no expectation of service. Open source is something they offer out of passion or goodwill, both of which can change at any time

Open source (and by extension a large chunk of software industry) runs on the expectation that people won't do random disruptive things even if it is plainly stated in the license that there is no such guarantee. Perhaps we should move away from this expectation (and events such as these will certainly accelerate the transition), but this is the current state of affairs.

> Open source (and by extension a large chunk of software industry) runs on the expectation that people won't do random disruptive things even if it is plainly stated in the license that there is no such guarantee.

Counterpoint: much of our industry is often described as being in the business of disruptive technology.

It's been educational for me to watch how developers are reacting when they're on the receiving end of the disruption.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#423

Post by def_true_false »

leaflets2 wrote: post #414
gruez wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it's unreasonable to expect europeans to freeze to death to protect ukranians, I think there's a middle ground between "business as usual" and "protect ukraine at all costs" that's not being considered here. Specifically, turning the temperature down to 5-10°C and wearing a coat. I doubt you'll be freezing to death in those circumstances. Is there widespread effort by europeans to do this? If not, then the pare…

I'm in Europe and I'd happily wear a jacket and a winter cap indoors. And people could go by bus, subway, ride share, so less oil and gas needed for transportation. And energy intensive industries could close for a while. Is it really more important to continue producing more cars, for example, than to try to stop the war?

> Is it really more important to continue producing more cars, for example, than to try to stop the war?

German policy of the last decade in a nutshell. Green feel-good crap for the masses while building more pipelines to Russia, literally planned to enable gas delivery even in case of conflict in Eastern Europe.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#424

Post by shadowgovt »

gadders wrote: post #385
Brotkrumen wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Criticising the silent majority when they try not to be silent anymore with "youre not taking any risks, so stay silent" is a bad take.

I'm highlighting the emptiness of the moral grandstanding.

We appear to have burned 393... Wait, 394... User comments on the subject.

So if it's empty, so is commenting on HN, I'd extrapolate. Otherwise, it's gotten the attention of the sort of people who comment on HN, and that's something.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#425

Post by gunfighthacksaw »

kennywinker wrote: post #359
LunaSea wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically virtue signalling

The term “virtue signaling” is a pet peeve of mine. Like the word “problematic” it’s too vague and broad to be useful. The implication seems to usually be that it’s all talk and no action. But if we’re talking, as we are now, that’s completely separate from my actions. Like, if I say “pollution is bad” and don’t do anything in my life to reduce pollution that’s virtue signaling, but it’s not if I’ve dedicated my life…

Using the term ‘virtue signalling’ is itself virtue signalling.

The virtue in this case being an implied rejection of groupthink.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#426

Post by HideousKojima »

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #337
HideousKojima wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone is trying to burn down my house with me in it, I have a right to shoot them in pretty much every jurisdiction in the US. If someone is burning down my store with me in it, I also have the right to use deadly force to defend it.

Let’s step back a little, please. This original context was about some BLM protests doing property damage, which included smashing storefronts and trash fires on the street.

They also included burning down buildings, not just trash in the street.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#427

Post by vkou »

BaronVonSteuben wrote: post #410
vkou wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not pick, say, the Boston Tea Party (And the war that followed) as a better example of an effective protest? Highly illegal and immoral, destructive and violent, killed some five-digit number of press-ganged soldiers and civilians, met all of its political goals...

Oh absolutely. The reason the Boston Tea Party is celebrated is because their side won the war. Had the British won, it would have been one of the many wicked/evil "rebellions" against the King that got crushed. But I'm not really seeing the connection here or why it invalidates the Unabomber example.

Unabomber is a worse example because while the ideas of his manifesto have taken root, he can't solely be credited for them, and his acolytes (both people pushing back on tech, and pundits screeching about woke politics ruining society) tend to condemn him (Again, because he wasn't the only person raising these ideas.)

The long and short of it is - just about any destructive, devious, and murderous form of protest is considered acceptable, as long as you can convince a large enough segment of society that it's end justifies the means.

It's circular logic, of course, but that's all there is to it. There are no involatile, unbreakable taboos when it comes to seeking political ends - you just have a harder time convincing some people that your cause is worthwhile, when you are using more extreme ones. And even if you win, you might still be condemned by history for your methods.

On the scale of extremes of methods, this thread's subject is notable, novel, interesting, but is more on the 'misdemeanour hooliganism' side of that spectrum.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#428

Post by zucker42 »

deltarholamda wrote: post #362
pkulak wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a company does business in Russia right now, they are giving money to the Russian government which will be used to kill Ukrainians. Let's not conflate wartime trade policy with Twitter wokeness marketing.

If a company shows support for the Ukraine, then they are giving aid and comfort to the Ukrainian military who was shelling civilians in the Donbass region for the past decade.

Your comment has the implication (intended or unintended) that Ukraine was the instigator as far as ceasefire violations go. As far as I can tell, that's not true. However, the real way to find out for sure would be to go through the OSCE SMM reports[1] about ceasefire violations and determine what percentage of them were likely from Ukranian-controlled territory versus separatist-controlled territory.

[1] https://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/reports

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#429

Post by lliamander »

KyeRussell wrote: post #220

Quoted post unavailable.

> We don’t need more whinging by men...

What if the "whinging" is done by women? Or non-white men? Do Ukranian men get a pass for now, considering it's their country that is being invaded?

Seriously, this is a sexist qualifier. It speaks volumes about your ideology that it is important what kind of people believe something, rather than just evaluating the idea on it's merits.

> Also, there’s certainly a subset of people with genuinely shitty views that don’t like that tech circles are becoming less of a save haven.

Is it so wrong to want feel a sense of belonging somewhere? Especially if many of those people with "shitty views" actually helped make tech such a desirable industry to work in?

In general a person's ideology is not the best filter of their quality or whether they should be included in a community. A lot of toxic people hold the "correct" beliefs.

> Open source / free software philosophy’s demand for apolitical stoicism is dripping with privilege and the way people treat the ramblings of RMS et al as inherently infallible just because it helped push this industry through its infancy shows how immature this industry is.

FOSS is far from apolitical. What it is, is relentlessly focused on its mission. Many of these virtue signaling acts do nothing for their claimed political goals and at the same time undermine the great good FOSS had brought to the world. That you don’t understand this is a sign of your own immaturity.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#430

Post by relativeadv »

baryphonic wrote: post #262

To be honest, I'm annoyed by the benign protestware messages when they start to get in the way of using the software, particularly on mobile. I was looking at the isomorphic git documentation the other day, and noticed that their "#BlackLivesMatter #DefundThePolice" banner scrolls under the rest of the content, leaving this annoying gap that takes up screen real estate, especially in landscape mode on a phone.[0] Wha…

I agree. I really do feel for these refugees and victims of social injustice. But when it mildly irritates me by having to scroll an extra inch or two to get to what i want to see i feel like their efforts are being misdirected. It makes more sense for these issues to simply solve themselves without inconveniencing me.
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