Maybe you should do less 'work' • Hacker News Board

Re: Maybe you should do less 'work'

#41

Post by Buttons840 » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 2:21 PM UTC

0des wrote: post #5

Getting my task completed at my own pace makes me feel good. Often that is fast and on time. In my heart, when I touch the keyboard, I feel like a greyhound dog with a little Bob Ross afro - it can be a race, a competition, but it is also an expression of my art. This article makes me feel bad because in the authors world, people like me are relegated to worker bee monkies trying to please the bossman due to patholog…

> When did we become so not only complacent but also discouraging of any genuine effort? It is as if everyone is so aloof that if you show any effort or appreciation of your craft that you're societally acknowledging your own serfdom or that you're serving "the man".

People perceive (perception being more important than reality in this case) growing inequality, and see that society as a whole isn't moving toward any goals they care about, so they just grift as be they can, coast and collect their paychecks. Society used to dream of a future of abundance and robot house-maids, now we picture the future being scarcity and catastrophic climate change and nuclear fallout. Am I wrong? Please tell me I'm wrong. I want to hear what future dreams society is persuing other than moving money around and making investment portfolios grow.

Re: Maybe you should do less 'work'

#42

Post by deltaonefour » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 2:22 PM UTC

The problem is, the idiot who pushes himself to 100% sets a standard that the rest become expected to follow.

Re: Maybe you should do less 'work'

#43

Post by ArcMex » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 2:23 PM UTC

thenerdhead wrote: post #15

I think for people who don’t agree with the article, perhaps seeking jobs that are outcome based are ideal. For those that are output based, I think it’s totally reasonable to cut back strategically.

It's funny, ever since I dedicated the morning to normal duties and afternoons to growth and development, I deliver results faster. Could be that I only use 4 hours to do all my work so I plan better and action faster.

Re: Maybe you should do less 'work'

#44

Post by giantg2 » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 2:24 PM UTC

pm90 wrote: post #27

giantg2 wrote: post #12

I'm glad they talk a good bit about perceptions. That's really what it comes down to at the end of the day. Who cares if you're doing a lot of work or a little work if nobody sees it. I don't know what's expected of me, at least not in an objective way. They apparently want me to go faster. One thing they are looking at is if I'm finishing early and asking for more work. So they are using that as an indicator, which…

Sounds like you need a vacation : )

I have a toddler - vacations don't really exist at this stage of life.

Plus the past two years have seen me using most of that time for family medical issues. This year I'll be using about 1/4 of my time off for my wife to go on vacations.

Re: Maybe you should do less 'work'

#45

Post by 0des » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 2:25 PM UTC

Buttons840 wrote: post #41

0des wrote: post #5

Getting my task completed at my own pace makes me feel good. Often that is fast and on time. In my heart, when I touch the keyboard, I feel like a greyhound dog with a little Bob Ross afro - it can be a race, a competition, but it is also an expression of my art. This article makes me feel bad because in the authors world, people like me are relegated to worker bee monkies trying to please the bossman due to patholog…

> When did we become so not only complacent but also discouraging of any genuine effort? It is as if everyone is so aloof that if you show any effort or appreciation of your craft that you're societally acknowledging your own serfdom or that you're serving "the man". People perceive (perception being more important than reality in this case) growing inequality, and see that society as a whole isn't moving toward any…

You're wrong. These concerns, in many forms, have been present for years, however we were once instilled with the instinct to overcome, but now frailty is more valued because even in failure you can not criticize those who are less able. Those appearing less able while still managing to overcome, even when due to random chance, results in more peer accolades and ironic fanfare in the face of adversity or some other disadvantage. The privilege industrial complex continues.

Am I kidding? Please tell me I'm kidding.

Re: Maybe you should do less 'work'

#46

Post by deltaonefour » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 2:26 PM UTC

alexashka wrote: post #38

100% this, but let me add the why : Most people don't want to do good work, they just want to get paid and fuck off. It is really hard to grok this because it is just so disappointing and demotivating. Most people lie constantly, to appear as if they want to do work, as if they give a fuck - they are lying to your face. Once you realize this much, once you come to terms with what most people are - the rest will fall…

From the other side of the coin. Your employer is free loading off of you. You are paid a fraction of the amount of money that your work actually generates. If your work generates 100 dollars... you're paid 10.

So essentially your employer is fucking you and any other attitude other than to treat the situation for what it is, is delusional.

Don't call us 'people'. You're the one that doesn't get it.

Now I'm not saying you need to freeload. But I do what I'm paid to do because this is a business transaction that favors the employer. After I'm paid, I fuck off, because I just got shafted by my employer and I owe him nothing until he can pay me again. My work is only good to the point where my employer is willing to continue paying me.

Re: Maybe you should do less 'work'

#47

Post by pm90 » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 2:26 PM UTC

yahn00 wrote: post #37

pm90 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You decide as a team. Concepts like story points and processes like agile sprints are intended to create a more realistic estimate of the work a team can deliver. The process comes with tradeoffs; it won’t work for everyone. So then it’s up to them to bring it up during retrospectives and decide to either change the process or… not. It’s important to understand that working on a team means that you just don’t get to…

[flagged]

I’m not a big fan of the term IC since you’re rarely delivering anything truly individually (on the average, yes there will be outliers). IMO “software engineer” is just fine as a role.

Re: Maybe you should do less 'work'

#48

Post by nonrandomstring » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 2:27 PM UTC

I'd like to rewrite this as "Why you should maybe not work so hard for someone else". Intrinsically motivated people (you'll know what I mean is you are one too) know no bounds to the ecstasy of work. Struggling toward a self-defined end is like flying in the clouds. In "flow", work is no longer work at all.

It is labour relations within a late-capitalist system of dehumanising exploitation, over-systematisation and rampant financialisation that turns life's greatest joy of having skills and purpose into farcical performance art, into an inefficient, resentment-fuelled spectacle of self-harm.

Re: Maybe you should do less 'work'

#49

Post by TameAntelope » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 2:29 PM UTC

I agree with the content of the article, but I don’t agree with the premise that these things aren’t also “work”.

Engineers tend to obsess over, “focused work” like it’s the only way to be productive, and anything that’s not “focused work” is wasted time. That is a surefire way to burn out.

Instead, finding ways to “riff” on your job by doing work with longer time horizons of payoff keeps your job fun.

It’s all “work”. Maybe the title ought to be, “Stop obsessing over focused work.”

Re: Maybe you should do less 'work'

#50

Post by jhgb » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 2:32 PM UTC

matheusmoreira wrote: post #20

muse900 wrote: post #7

Personal experience has taught me that there is a MAXIMUM amount of COMP that you will receive as an employee, no matter how much hard work you put into your company. So basically what is happening, is that you are working hard for some achievements, that someone else is going to benefit off.

Yes. Compensation is best measured as hourly rate: $/h. Working too hard just decreases that ratio because work hours increase while money stays constant.

> Working too hard just decreases that ratio because work hours increase while money stays constant

I assume this may hold for the US, but not for many other countries. For example in my country the hourly rate for overtime hours is higher by law. Your hourly compensation decrease while working longer would only decrease if you were an external contractor paid a fixed amount of money for completion of a specific task.