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Wipeout (PSX and Windows Source)

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Re: Wipeout (PSX and Windows Source)

#131

Post by incrudible »

vikingerik wrote: post #101
spicyjpeg wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That post introduced me to both WebGL and reverse engineering back in the day. I remember reading it years ago and asking myself "seriously, is it that easy to do 3D in a browser???". The web as an app platform is not without its issues, sure, but for quick prototyping being able to just write some JS and have instant access to plenty of APIs is awesome. Last year I decided to finally break out of the browser and get…

I've noticed that too, the PS1 just doesn't seem to inspire the same passion that other popular consoles do. I think it's because most of the top games on it were part of franchises that flowed on to the PS2 and Xbox. Other than Final Fantasy 7-9 and Castlevania SOTN, there's not really that much to do on the PS1 that you can't do better with a sequel on a later console, and even FF7 had a PC release back in its day…

I don't feel that way. The limitations of the PSX do generate an aesthetic that does invoke strong nostalgia. This includes flaws like texture distortion, wobbly geometry, integer texture filtering and dithering. You may even see it reproduced in indie games, here and there.

I also disagree that there isn't "much to do", many popular games remain exclusives to the PSX and this is reflected in the prices they fetch:

https://www.pricecharting.com/console/playstation

Re: Wipeout (PSX and Windows Source)

#132

Post by incrudible »

holyyikes wrote: post #104
spicyjpeg wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That post introduced me to both WebGL and reverse engineering back in the day. I remember reading it years ago and asking myself "seriously, is it that easy to do 3D in a browser???". The web as an app platform is not without its issues, sure, but for quick prototyping being able to just write some JS and have instant access to plenty of APIs is awesome. Last year I decided to finally break out of the browser and get…

Because once you go 3D, you might as well just go modern 3D. It's why, amusingly, the PS1 game that is probably the most highly regarded today is a 2D game (Symphony of the Night). 3D games just age like milk and people have no interest in old ones.

If the look of early 3D doesn't appeal to you, sure. You probably would have had to experience it at the time.

That said, I do feel the mix of 2D sprites and basic 3D that many of the JRPGs (like Xenogears) went for did age well and works best at that resolution, without texture filtering.

Re: Wipeout (PSX and Windows Source)

#133

Post by djmips »

kingcharles wrote: post #120
djmips wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears that the game on Windows (correction MSDOS) used raw frame buffer not Direct 3D. The entire polygon rendering appears to be in x86 assembler contained in 3DPOLY.ASM with the triangle setup in DRAWPOLY.ASM However there is also a code path for drawing using a proprietary ATI CIF hardware accelerated 3D API in winati.c - support for RAGE cards only. I'd never seen the proprietary ATI 3D calls before. I dug u…

It came out just as the changeover started to happen from DOS-based software 3D engines to Windows DirectX 3D engines. I worked on this game at exactly the same time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abomination:_The_Nemesis_Proje... That game was supposed to be 2D, but was switched to the characters being 3D, so I brought my whole DOS software 3D engine and ported it to DirectX over the course of 2 weeks. I'm going to…

Yes, I mentioned that the triangle setup appears to be in DRAWPOLY.ASM

Re: Wipeout (PSX and Windows Source)

#134

Post by djmips »

royjacobs wrote: post #126
kingcharles wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It came out just as the changeover started to happen from DOS-based software 3D engines to Windows DirectX 3D engines. I worked on this game at exactly the same time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abomination:_The_Nemesis_Proje... That game was supposed to be 2D, but was switched to the characters being 3D, so I brought my whole DOS software 3D engine and ported it to DirectX over the course of 2 weeks. I'm going to…

No, it didn't. It also didn't do any subpixel correction. Instead, there was a lot of tesselation happening to try and mask the texture warping somewhat but it was never really all that successful.

So it seems they took the easy road and just made a polygon renderer that was just good enough, or as good as the PS1.

Re: Wipeout (PSX and Windows Source)

#135

Post by djmips »

kingcharles wrote: post #120
djmips wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears that the game on Windows (correction MSDOS) used raw frame buffer not Direct 3D. The entire polygon rendering appears to be in x86 assembler contained in 3DPOLY.ASM with the triangle setup in DRAWPOLY.ASM However there is also a code path for drawing using a proprietary ATI CIF hardware accelerated 3D API in winati.c - support for RAGE cards only. I'd never seen the proprietary ATI 3D calls before. I dug u…

It came out just as the changeover started to happen from DOS-based software 3D engines to Windows DirectX 3D engines. I worked on this game at exactly the same time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abomination:_The_Nemesis_Proje... That game was supposed to be 2D, but was switched to the characters being 3D, so I brought my whole DOS software 3D engine and ported it to DirectX over the course of 2 weeks. I'm going to…

Yeah, I did some software poly stuff too but late eighties and it didn't have texture mapping. It was used in some sports games.

Re: Wipeout (PSX and Windows Source)

#136

Post by royjacobs »

djmips wrote: post #134
royjacobs wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it didn't. It also didn't do any subpixel correction. Instead, there was a lot of tesselation happening to try and mask the texture warping somewhat but it was never really all that successful.

So it seems they took the easy road and just made a polygon renderer that was just good enough, or as good as the PS1.

Yes, this would have had the additional benefit that it was going to be pretty performant since having to do z-buffered perspective correct texture mapping wasn't cheap on PC's at the time and the game was already set up to not require any of that.

Re: Wipeout (PSX and Windows Source)

#137

Post by monocasa »

musha68k wrote: post #54
lkitching wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All those links are to the first game, not Wipeout 3.

If the confusion stems from me writing 'Wip3out' I'm sorry about that, just a habit of mine. I've always written out any WipEout title as Wip3out (the capital 'E' looked like a horizontally flipped `3` in the original DR design). I was referring to the source leak related title, the original WipEout (1) of course (see cover art links).

Oh, ok. That totally checks out and is my bad for further confusing an already confusing situation.
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