141–150 of 255 posts
I have a difficult time understanding this. I was a kid that was rebellious, but in a way that didn't get me in trouble. When I read stories like this I get an intense feeling of fighting back, or at the very least, hold everyone that participated in contempt for the rest of my life. I am certain that if my parents had done something like this I would never have forgiven them. Nor would I have forgiven anyone that wo…
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> Some children are "bad" and need to be taught not to hurt others. The title of this post is relevant. OP "obliged" because he was told he was bad. The point is to not do that. > Children certainly need boundaries and rules Rules are paramount in "Positive Disipline". From the section "Creating Rules" [1]: > In her book entitled Positive Discipline, Jane Nelsen emphasizes the importance of not only creating clear ru…
I appreciate your response and I apologize for the brevity of this one, but I worry that pretty much everything in the second half of your comments is based on a highly-idealized perspective of the situation. What if you try and be fair with a kid and they just never understand fairness ? What do you do if you need the kid to follow rules so they don’t get in trouble? What are the “natural consequences” for a kid who…
My little brother did that, he was like 6 or 7. My father pulled him from school for a week, brought him to work. At the time he was a social worker, finding jobs for excluded people and helping reinsertion through work, in a rural area (not as rural as some areas in the US, but very rural for western Europe). Gave him some books, pens and blanck sheet to draw, took him to lunch, probably had him "work" a little (he did basically the same to me when i was 14, only it was only work). He also send him to judo classes. Worked pretty well i'd say.
It wasn't a punishment, it was more of a "timeout". Also, all kids understand fairness, they just don't always have the same understanding. You just have to explain it, before the act. You can't say "don't hit people" to a kid and expect him to understand, ESPECIALLY if he has been hit before. Also, this would have been a lie, as he can hit people. And to teach how, when, why and why not hit people, a martial art teacher is probably better equiped than a pacifist father.
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Sorry couldn't let this one go: I hope you've internalized completely that it wasn't your fault - and you where just a kid trying to survive - again not your fault.
My roommate who was athletic and feminine looking had it a lot worse. It was the first time I had seen any type of sex. It was violent and non consensual, and he was devastated, never the same. I felt faint there was a sense of shock. They involved me (with force) so that I couldn’t talk about it and they stopped me leaving the room. Then they said that’s part of the culture and he’s one of them now or something to t…
When the Littleton shooting hit the news this was the first thing on my mind. Lots of us know those events have deep roots in the local community.
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>> maybe your family did effectively use positive discipline, or you were an only child, or you were the "good" one in your family. You omit the many sadly common cases for legitimate rebellion and escape, such as sexual abuse from stepparents or foster parents. Those unfortunately can't be remedied with "positive discipline" and they don't make a child the "bad" one.
Are you extending the conversation on purpose? Sexual abuse and trauma don’t seem to weigh into this story at all.
I brought it up because it is usually an underlying reason for kids doing crazy shit because they don't give a fuck anymore. It's not always the reason, but it's way more often than most people realize. You think your kid hasn't been molested. There's a good chance he has.
43% of men report having been sexually assaulted or harassed in America. Actual penetrative rape numbers are around 20% of women and 5% of men, which equates to 20M+ men in the US at a minimum [1]
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> I consider this type of discipline itself to be a form of abuse Absolutely. The "tough love" program made everything worse for OP, but the problem started earlier. Prior to being sent away, OP self-described as being misanthropic for years, > The years leading up to my being taken and the eventual break out is now a blur of misanthropy. If someone hates humanity for years, they deserve loving attention to help them…
Definitely his report of his own behavior leading up to it is enough to make you wonder what you'd do if it were your child. A lot of times when I'm out in the world and watch people acting out, or just behaving like they were raised in a barn, the coldest part of myself thinks their parents should have disciplined them. The warmest, fuzziest and most liberal part of myself thinks that their behavior is mostly due to…
IMO we could all benefit from taking a "positive discipline" [1] approach to relationships. And in those difficult families, hopefully outreach can connect them with a trained therapist who can both listen and appropriately guide. We're not all in a position to directly help, and it is largely up to the individual to make necessary changes for themselves. But we can each be a sort of light by which individuals might find their direction.
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> Some children are "bad" and need to be taught not to hurt others. The title of this post is relevant. OP "obliged" because he was told he was bad. The point is to not do that. > Children certainly need boundaries and rules Rules are paramount in "Positive Disipline". From the section "Creating Rules" [1]: > In her book entitled Positive Discipline, Jane Nelsen emphasizes the importance of not only creating clear ru…
Have you ever interacted with a "troubled" teen? This comment is not based on reality. It's laughable, really. There are kids who cannot be reasoned with. You try to explain the importance of healthy teeth to troubled teen and they will respond "I don't care". "Natural consequences" are not sufficient. A troubled kid will drink himself into the hospital over and over. A troubled kid will have run ins with the law ove…
If they are so troublesome that they are a continuous threat to society (e.g. murders or serial sex offenders), there are legal ways to get them into psychiatric clinics (those means are easily abused as well so). If they are not, well, in a free society you cannot prevent people from ruining their own lives.
Most "troublesome" kids, so, are nowhere even close to these categories. And if they turn out to have really troubled lives after wards (e.g. drug abuse and everything that comes with it), I'd say most of that was caused by the "treatment" they received previously.
just to take your example of a drinking teen (being German my threshold for that would be considerably higher then the US one at that), how do you think such a teen, with already existing problems of substance abuse, would behave after going through months or years of mental and physical abuse? Turning sober? Or falling deeper into that hole?
I'm puzzled that I even have to argue against a system that, as was proven time and again, results in very serious child abuse.
If you want to read something truly horrific check out elan.school . It was a troubled teen school in Maine that sounds unbelievable until you read multiple identical stories from students
I was one of the unlucky people who spent time at elan. It was a terrible terrible time. Much like the author of the article I was awoken by 2 big dudes in my bedroom and was given the choice to get dressed and go peacefully or they would drag me out of bed and take me away in my underwear. I said I'm not doing shit until my parents give you permission to take me. They handed me a piece of paper with both my parents…
I know this is an inane question... But did they let you smoke in the van or was it a ploy?
Sorry you had to go through that abuse.
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> Some children are "bad" and need to be taught not to hurt others. The title of this post is relevant. OP "obliged" because he was told he was bad. The point is to not do that. > Children certainly need boundaries and rules Rules are paramount in "Positive Disipline". From the section "Creating Rules" [1]: > In her book entitled Positive Discipline, Jane Nelsen emphasizes the importance of not only creating clear ru…
Have you ever interacted with a "troubled" teen? This comment is not based on reality. It's laughable, really. There are kids who cannot be reasoned with. You try to explain the importance of healthy teeth to troubled teen and they will respond "I don't care". "Natural consequences" are not sufficient. A troubled kid will drink himself into the hospital over and over. A troubled kid will have run ins with the law ove…
Well, again, the title of this post shows the results of that attitude. Years of misbehavior and a well written story from a lucky one who made it to the other side, no thanks to "tough love" bootcamps according to him.
Every kid looks up to someone, whether they see that someone in person or on a screen. Becoming that someone, or a trusted figure for a teen, is a lifestyle change. Building trust takes time, and it can be lost in a moment.
The field of "Positive Discipline" [1] or "Positive Parenting" provides workable solutions. There may not be a quick fix. The idea is to reinforce good behavior while weaning bad ones. There are a ton of podcasts and books on this topic you can find using those keywords. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_discipline edit: please explain your downvotes, thanks! As interesting as discussing the problems is, the…
Why I downvoted? Because, to me, the linked approach is the first (well, actually already a couple of miles) step towards tough love programs. It goes against everything good parenting is. Because at its core, much like tough love, the goal is to create "conforming" children that aren't causing any trouble. The goal of parenting, so, should be to offer a safe environment for kids to become who they are and want to to…
Even if what they want is to become a drug addict felon?
A mentally ill teenager does not know what is best for them. The parents job is to help their kids grow into happy, healthy members of society. The existence of rules does not preclude kids developing their own personality.
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Have you ever interacted with a "troubled" teen? This comment is not based on reality. It's laughable, really. There are kids who cannot be reasoned with. You try to explain the importance of healthy teeth to troubled teen and they will respond "I don't care". "Natural consequences" are not sufficient. A troubled kid will drink himself into the hospital over and over. A troubled kid will have run ins with the law ove…
Assuming they really are troublesome, that justifies torturing them into compliance? On which legal ground are they basically imprisoned? If they are so troublesome that they are a continuous threat to society (e.g. murders or serial sex offenders), there are legal ways to get them into psychiatric clinics (those means are easily abused as well so). If they are not, well, in a free society you cannot prevent people f…
Irrespective of the camps, OPs parenting advice is bad, insulting, and deserves to be called out.