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I hate what video games have become

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Re: I hate what video games have become

#281
post #25

Video games are like this because people pay for it. It didn’t start like this. Back when packaged games (i.e. shrink-wrapped cd/dvd cases) were the way games were delivered we had “online” modes that generally cost a fixed amount (including $0) to access. Then someone would experiment with something like a power up or level up for some tiny cost, or a “bundle” of them, etc. and guess what: the market overwhelmingly…

>Video games are like this because people pay for it. I hate this argument because it implies you have any power in this situation. They don't do this because the majority likes it, they do it because there's a select group of whales that are willing to spend ungodly amounts of money on this crap. They're the ones who dictate how these games operate and no amount of "vote with your wallet" would change it.

Yeah no. There are still plenty of games, both indie and non-indie, which millions of players who don't whale can play, containing at most DLC which is effectively an expansion on top of an otherwise complete base game. If you don't want to play these games, there are still plenty of options. Enough developers haven't sold their souls yet, either.

Reality is, the market meets a demand where there is a demand. The developers are not the sole responsible people for choosing to put in gambling gimmicks, incomplete games for 25-60 bucks, DLC which should've been base, P2W, etc. There is just as much of a responsibility on customers to vote with their money, or vote for laws to ban this shit if it becomes evident people can't control themselves as a whole. We haven't reached the critical mass where you don't have other options yet, and it looks like we won't for quite some time.

Meanwhile almost every indie trying to fit in the market and come with their passionate solution is met with a dire reality that selling games takes a tremendous amount of effort for anyone who doesn't have a giant brand behind them.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#282

As a (non game) developer, I can say, thay free to play is instantly dead on arrival for me. The moment something is known to become or becomes free to play is the moment I lose all interest. The dishonesty in the system itself is what makes this unbearable for me. Developers need to eat, Managers need to eat, Marketeers need to eat... And sometimes psychologists doing evil mindtricks and supporting gambling addictio…

Call it trial version then. ; )

Re: I hate what video games have become

#283

I’m glad there is this whole parallel universe of amazing single player (or MP-optional) games with absolutely no dark patterns, loot boxes or any of the shit people who play MP games have to put up with. I buy a game, and unless I get the DLC(s)/Expanions pack(s), that’s all I’ll ever have to pay. Civilization V: Over 2000 hours. Pathfinder: Kingmaker/Wrath of the righteous: Over 1000 hours each. Stellaris [0]: Almo…

Speaking of which EU4 is currently on humble bundle. You can get it and all DLC for £20

https://www.humblebundle.com/games/europa-universalis-iv-com...

Re: I hate what video games have become

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair criticism, but one that is only relevant in the first place because of freemium. Prior to that business model, there was no such thing as a company continuing to provide regular, ongoing support to a 7 year old game of the non-subscription variety. I mean, how or why would they? You release something; it makes 90% of its lifetime revenue in year 1; if you continue working on it for 6 more years, you're out of bu…

No Man’s Sky has been getting 6 years of updates purely out of a wounded sense of pride.

Obligatory link for discussions on NMS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5BJVO3PDeQ

Re: I hate what video games have become

#285
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some people hate the Paradox DLC style, personally I think it’s amazing Yep. Some people might argue that this or that mechanic should be in the base game because it's too important, but in general the Paradox model is great. Games get interesting new content many years after release, which you have to pay for, but it enables Paradox to actually do the work. The latest DLC for Hearts of Iron 4 took more than a year…

From an engineering perspective I wonder how sustainable that is. For every new DLC X you need to test with (X-1)! combinations of previous DLCs. Sure, not all DLCs interact with each other but many will in some limited way.

It is a common joke among fans for these games that Paradox Interactive does not have a QA department, given how incredibly buggy their DLCs are at launch.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A better phrasing is whether they offer a competitive advantage.

Look good, feel good, play good? It seems to me that it definitely has a psychological impact for some folks (myself included) in both off-line and on-line competition.

Look “good”? Come on. If not having the Pickle Rick decal for your car makes you play worse it has nothing to do with looking “good”. Perhaps look “like I own this exclusive cosmetic”, which applies to offline as well, don’t you think?

The real problem is that loot boxes are gambling, and are addictive, period. It triggers something in otherwise rational people, especially children, that makes it feel good to spend money on mostly non-gameplay-altering cosmetics.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#287
post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me again of "when you don't have to pay for it, you're the product, not the customer". Here, all the free players are opponents necessary to attract the whales.

But that applies even to paid games. It's very hard to attract players to games if it's mainly multiplayer and there's no one to play against. Both players and developers do want an active playerbase, and free to play significantly lowers the barrier of entry for potential players.

So maybe free-to-play simply has to be the future of multiplayer games?

And yet they put me off because you're constantly confronted with mechanisms designed to make you pay. I don't mind paying for a game, but once I'm playing, I want to focus on the game, not the payment.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#288
For me the problem is not so much the direct consequences of paying, but the subtle hidden differences between a game that offers things to buy and one that doesn’t. The amount of money you will pay for something will never be worth the time you’d spend to unlock it for free. Maybe you can pay $1 dollar for something that would take a couple of hours of play time to unlock. Who has a shitty job that pays $0.50 an hour? So, the whole thing loses meaning completely. Why bother? I don’t know. Free to play games are to me simply another type of infinite scroll.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#289

I’m glad there is this whole parallel universe of amazing single player (or MP-optional) games with absolutely no dark patterns, loot boxes or any of the shit people who play MP games have to put up with. I buy a game, and unless I get the DLC(s)/Expanions pack(s), that’s all I’ll ever have to pay. Civilization V: Over 2000 hours. Pathfinder: Kingmaker/Wrath of the righteous: Over 1000 hours each. Stellaris [0]: Almo…

Grim Dawn also has a ton of content without any psycho crap built-in. MP is optional but adds fun and has a good community too.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cosmetic items are not just visual though. They are real elements in the game. Yes, I really hate this argument that cosmetics are not gameplay. Visuals are a huge part of what makes a game, no one would be happy if games shipped without textures and shaders and people would have to pay to unlock them.

A better phrasing is whether they offer a competitive advantage.

Why? Why is competitive advantage the only thing that matters?

OP is just ranting about people who pay more getting a better experience, making paying such a central part of gaming. They just hate this, which I agree with, although I know others don't.

In a way, getting a better experience just for being able and willing to pay more is a basic feature of our society. Why should we expect videogames, being as expensive and lucrative, to be radically different from the rest of society?

I'll just continue appreciating those games who are, those who actually work more like art. If I ever decide to try a F2P loot-box generator-style game, it generally puts me off quickly.

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