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When I was labeled a ‘troubled’ teen, I obliged

nytimes.com

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Re: When I was labeled a ‘troubled’ teen, I obliged

#81

Post by rOOb85 »

mrjangles wrote: post #74
rOOb85 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was one of the unlucky people who spent time at elan. It was a terrible terrible time. Much like the author of the article I was awoken by 2 big dudes in my bedroom and was given the choice to get dressed and go peacefully or they would drag me out of bed and take me away in my underwear. I said I'm not doing shit until my parents give you permission to take me. They handed me a piece of paper with both my parents…

Yeah I'm glad you asked, I do have a question. I read that comic linked above, it was incredibly horrifying, but as I kept reading, something felt off about it. The guy who wrote it is clearly a professional writer and he uses many common manipulative tricks to engage the reader, and that bothers me a little, like he isn't being completely honest. So I did some research and it seems most of his facts check out with w…

I haven’t read all of the comic so I can’t say if he embellished things.

I can say 100% that screaming at people was very much encouraged(during “therapy” sessions or as punishment). It was referred to as “getting your feelings off”. Sometimes it would be in a group setting where you sat in a circle and everyone had to pick someone else in the group and scream at them as loud as possible about anything the person did that made you angry or annoyed you. Other times it was a form of punishment where they made you stand against a wall or in the corner and everyone else in the “house” would crowd around and all scream as loud as possible at you all at once. They only rules were you can’t make fun of them for things like race, sexuality, appearance, etc.

Re: When I was labeled a ‘troubled’ teen, I obliged

#82

Post by rOOb85 »

kingcharles wrote: post #77
rOOb85 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was very fortunate that my parents believed me and withdrew me after ~5 months. My parents sent me there with the best intentions. But elan tricked them. And they realized that. They have both apologized numerous times and explained how they regret the decision. Last year, so over 20 years later, out of the blue my dad just blurted out “I’m so sorry we sent you to elan. We truly didn’t know…”. It took me by surpris…

The parents get brainwashed by these companies. It's like a cult mindset. They've got the script down perfectly, preying on the parents insecurities and fears until rational people make irrational, fucked-up decisions.

Pretty much. elan knew exactly what the parents wanted to hear and see and would tailor the parents tour or questions around that.

Re: When I was labeled a ‘troubled’ teen, I obliged

#83

Post by paganel »

unityByFreedom wrote: post #41
Mirioron wrote: post #17

I have a difficult time understanding this. I was a kid that was rebellious, but in a way that didn't get me in trouble. When I read stories like this I get an intense feeling of fighting back, or at the very least, hold everyone that participated in contempt for the rest of my life. I am certain that if my parents had done something like this I would never have forgiven them. Nor would I have forgiven anyone that wo…

The author writes, > I was reckless, taking my mom’s car out for joy rides without permission, skipping class That may be after 16 years of doing outrageous things to get attention at home. Some psychologists in the 1950s [1] suggested kids will do whatever gets them attention while striving for a way to participate in the family. That can include bad behavior. If they don't receive attention for good behavior, then…

> taking my mom’s car out for joy rides without permission, skipping class

Those are all just "things that kids do", or they used to be some years ago, pretty sad that "skipping classes" has transformed into a "reckless" thing that risks getting you, as a kid, quasi-institutionalised.

Re: When I was labeled a ‘troubled’ teen, I obliged

#84

Post by watwut »

arthurofbabylon wrote: post #68

Stories about these institutions get conflated into a mess that scarcely resembles the reality. In a way, this is inevitable with a wide variety of schools and treatment centers, and a yet wider variety of perspectives. This particular story tells us little about these schools – it describes the perspective of a student, a client. This is valuable and I'm grateful to read it. However, I caution other readers against…

> This particular story tells us little about these schools – it describes the perspective of a student, a client.

Accounts of people who were clients or experienced X tell a lot about X. Not a little. When we take accounts of people who experienced it as a little, that ia when we are missing the most important perspective. And that is when abuses escalate.

Yes, good experience matters as múch as bad ones. But bad ones dont tell "a little".

> help a kid who is on the cusp of life in prison, undergoing their 8th overdose, or being repeatedly raped and subjected to prostitution/exploitation

One of these things is not like the others. One of them is much more likely to happen in an institution.

Re: When I was labeled a ‘troubled’ teen, I obliged

#85

Post by rOOb85 »

vonseel wrote: post #55

I was sent to one of these schools and attended from late 2005 - early 2007. The school was called Excel Academy about an hour north of Houston; it has since been shut down. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excel_Academy_(Conroe,_Texas) My reasons for being sent there are similar to the author's. I didn't take my dad's car without permission, but I did drink a lot, skip school, was generally rebellious and refused to be…

I was in elan and yea, a lot of similarities. elan had a pretty extensive class system. Shot down was the lowest, worker was standard entry level, then expeditor, then something else, then guru, and I can’t remember the rest.

Anything lower then expeditor weren’t allowed to talk to one another without a higher up “being aware” or couldn’t use the bathroom without an escort(who could deny you if they were busy or just didn’t want to). If you wanted to speak to a staff member(even if they were right next to you) you had to ask a higher leveled person who would then tell the staff you wanted to talk. At meal time the highest member at the table got to pick the food first followed by the next highest and so on.

elan also did the same thing with boys and girls. They were not supposed to talk to each other and doing so could get you in trouble. elan had like 4 houses and on the very rare occasions the houses crossed paths, you were not allowed to talk to them or even LOOK at them.

They also stripped you of any “old you” identities. Plain clothes, no logos, no piercings, no jewelry, no non standard hair colors/cuts(I don’t think they even allowed boys to have long hair), no hats, and no hoodies.

They did the same thing with music as well. No swear words or extreme stuff. Thankfully burning cds were a new thing when I was there and my used his works CD burner to burn me some good music I liked.

If they suspected you were going to escape( pretty much impossible, the place is in bumfuck Maine in the woods) they would make you wear fluorescent clothing, and in the case of boys… fluorescent PINK clothing and take your shoelaces. Sometimes make you wear a sign around your neck as well.

The one good thing about elan was it wasn’t backed by religion. I don’t even remember an option for church.

Re: When I was labeled a ‘troubled’ teen, I obliged

#86

Post by ajb »

wolverine876 wrote: post #59
lubujackson wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "system" isn't a vague boogeyman but the product of individual decisions that funnel things in aggregate to a certain conclusion. Think of how birds fly in a "V" formation, something emergent from each bird following the same simple rules. A teen not abiding by the boundaries of society may be dealt with in a way that seems viciously over-reactive because maintaining order is the entire focus of each element of t…

We're not birds or beasts acting on instinct; they don't invent democracy and form judicial systems. The system is not somewhere else, it's not something else, it's not someone else, it's sitting in front of your computer right now.

Let me try: Blaming 'the system' isn't abandoning responsibility (or isn't necessarily). It's a statement about the structure of the problem.

Some evils are caused by the intent of one individual. Remove that individual, or change their behaviour, no more problem. In other cases the situation is perpetuated by a structure of social relations which isn't visible if you only consider individuals.

Yes, ultimately individuals have to take responsibility and take action, but that is necessary but not sufficient. To understand what it will take to cure the disease requires understanding 'the system'.

Suppose in this case, one year we manage to remove all abusive staff from these schools. That's a solution at the level of individual responsibility. And well worth doing. But soon enough abusive individuals will work their way into these positions again. Only by recognising that this system is inherently prone to result in abuse can you figure out how to prevent it.

Re: When I was labeled a ‘troubled’ teen, I obliged

#87

Post by rOOb85 »

kingcharles wrote: post #73
rOOb85 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was one of the unlucky people who spent time at elan. It was a terrible terrible time. Much like the author of the article I was awoken by 2 big dudes in my bedroom and was given the choice to get dressed and go peacefully or they would drag me out of bed and take me away in my underwear. I said I'm not doing shit until my parents give you permission to take me. They handed me a piece of paper with both my parents…

How long have you been out? What's your relationship with your parents like now?

I was there in 98-99 so it’s been a long time.

My relationship with my parents is good. They truly sent me there with the best intentions and I know that. They have expressed remorse and have apologized many times over the years.

Re: When I was labeled a ‘troubled’ teen, I obliged

#89

Post by searchableguy »

girvo wrote: post #70
arthurofbabylon wrote: post #68

Stories about these institutions get conflated into a mess that scarcely resembles the reality. In a way, this is inevitable with a wide variety of schools and treatment centers, and a yet wider variety of perspectives. This particular story tells us little about these schools – it describes the perspective of a student, a client. This is valuable and I'm grateful to read it. However, I caution other readers against…

I have a question. Do these programs exist in other countries? A cursory search (I honestly am not sure what I should be looking for) couldn't find any here in Australia. Is this a uniquely American thing? Surely not, I assume. If it's not, do these programs have the same horrible stories coming out of them elsewhere, and if they don't, does that not paint a picture that the approach taken in the US isn't a good one?…

> Do these programs exist in other countries?

Yes, they exist in India. The usual purpose is to force kids to study.

India has coaching centres which are worse than jails for kids where they are coached to crack JEE (Elite college entrance exam) and other competitive exams.

You can find all sort of abuse happening in these.

Stack class ranking, subtle gender separation, and some verbal & physical abuse is common in most schools outside of few urban centres though.

Public stripping and getting kids dehydrated outside in hot temperatures was a thing few years ago but it might have stopped now, I hope.

Re: When I was labeled a ‘troubled’ teen, I obliged

#90

Post by kingcharles »

rOOb85 wrote: post #87
kingcharles wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long have you been out? What's your relationship with your parents like now?

I was there in 98-99 so it’s been a long time. My relationship with my parents is good. They truly sent me there with the best intentions and I know that. They have expressed remorse and have apologized many times over the years.

Honestly, I feel like all these parents are victims too. I'm glad it didn't destroy your relationship with your parents. It does for many :(
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