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When I was labeled a ‘troubled’ teen, I obliged

nytimes.com

41–50 of 255 posts

Re: When I was labeled a ‘troubled’ teen, I obliged

#41

I have a difficult time understanding this. I was a kid that was rebellious, but in a way that didn't get me in trouble. When I read stories like this I get an intense feeling of fighting back, or at the very least, hold everyone that participated in contempt for the rest of my life. I am certain that if my parents had done something like this I would never have forgiven them. Nor would I have forgiven anyone that wo…

The author writes,

> I was reckless, taking my mom’s car out for joy rides without permission, skipping class

That may be after 16 years of doing outrageous things to get attention at home.

Some psychologists in the 1950s [1] suggested kids will do whatever gets them attention while striving for a way to participate in the family. That can include bad behavior. If they don't receive attention for good behavior, then they can gradually find their way towards things that will definitely get attention, like getting into mom's makeup, throwing around food or dirty diapers or whatever. Today, many psychologists suggest using positive discipline [2] to reinforce good behavior while weaning bad behaviors.

Often a family might have one "good" kid who excels in school while another struggles. Why is that? Aforementioned psychologists suggest it is because each kid finds a way to "stand out" in their family, and families who dote on the good child may reinforce the chosen behavior of both children.

In your case, maybe your family did effectively use positive discipline, or you were an only child, or you were the "good" one in your family.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Dreikurs

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_discipline

Re: When I was labeled a ‘troubled’ teen, I obliged

#42
post #29
post #12

I am so glad these abuses are receiving mainstream attention. The way we treat children in our society is rotten. 18 years a slave.

As weird as it may seem, Paris Hilton was actually sent to one of these places and has spoken out about them and shed some light on them.

Tom Hanks' son also mentioned offhandedly that he was "sent away to a wilderness program:" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy47RTZRy9w#t=3m29s

"It's 4 in the morning, there's two huge dudes in my room, they're like 'You're coming with us', and they put in the back of a car and drove me to the middle of nowhere."

Re: When I was labeled a ‘troubled’ teen, I obliged

#43

I have a difficult time understanding this. I was a kid that was rebellious, but in a way that didn't get me in trouble. When I read stories like this I get an intense feeling of fighting back, or at the very least, hold everyone that participated in contempt for the rest of my life. I am certain that if my parents had done something like this I would never have forgiven them. Nor would I have forgiven anyone that wo…

At a certain level it's not hard to understand, in that it's predictable: Power corrupts, and you can depend on it. People with power over vulnerable human beings, and with no check on their power, can be generally predicted to abuse it. Just look for those situations and I predict that you will often find it. (That's one reason transparency and openness are so important.) Look at child sex abuse scandals: Who do the…

>> Have you ever heard of such a thing happening to the children of the powerful?

Yes. It happens all the time. In some areas of high society, in the recent past, it was downright common. Look into the history of British boys schools. I myself attended a British-style boarding school. While I never witnessed anything personally, a few years after I graduated my former math teacher was fired in disgrace. I never got the full story beyond "he had fail to register with appropriate authorities and so was let go".

The reason it seems that the children and powerful are immune is only because such issues rarely becomes public. Poor people report crimes to the police. Rich people talk to their lawyers and the issue is settled between the families.

Re: When I was labeled a ‘troubled’ teen, I obliged

#44
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really believe that the judges and prosecutors who send kids to these abuse factories don't now they are going to harm the child? That's why they do this, they like to hurt/intimidate/damage people, that's literally all their jobs do all day long. Why would they go along with prosecuting people who were performing the abuse they wanted done? I'm sorry but these places have been out in the open since they first…

We can think of other populations that consistently tell stories of abuse, over generations, and are downplayed and denied - today, yesterday, even here on HN.

[deleted]

Re: When I was labeled a ‘troubled’ teen, I obliged

#45
post #7

How do these cases not result in mass prosecutions? It shouldn't be too hard to tie a few people to the abuse at these schools, then police say, "give us names and help us understand who was responsible at the top, or you're looking at many, many years in prison for child abuse and we'll just find someone else who'll talk" You know, the same way prosecutors go after mobsters and drug rings

> How do these cases not result in mass prosecutions? In Luzerne County, PA, judges were paid off by local juvenile detention centers to sentence kids there. Over years, they sentenced many, many kids, in court, for absurdities (e.g., I think one kid was sentenced for throwing a sandwich at their teacher). Much of the court system and local legal community had to know; nobody put a stop to it. Judicial conduct boards…

I don't think "the IT community" (is there even such a thing) has any sort of power where corruption in the traditional sense can even exist. Something like Kids for Cash is an institutional failing and requires the concerted effort and coordination of multiple, theoretically unrelated - or even opposed - parties that all have a lot of institutional power rarely found outside of government. Even huge multinational corporations worth hundreds of billions don't have the kind of power needed to literally sell kids into slavery with the blessing of the judiciary.

Re: When I was labeled a ‘troubled’ teen, I obliged

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever nice-sounding things the little kids are told, the police, "justice" system, etc. are actually more interested in enforcing the existing social order than they are in being the good guys, or the letter or spirit of the law. And such "schools" are certainly all about enforcing the existing social order, upon "residents" who the Cops & Co. are not favorably inclined toward.

> the police, "justice" system, etc. are actually more interested in enforcing the existing social order than they are in being the good guys, or the letter or spirit of the law. What are you interested in? I know it's a provocative question, but blaming some 'system' is 90% of the problem. What am I interested in? My actions speak.

The "system" isn't a vague boogeyman but the product of individual decisions that funnel things in aggregate to a certain conclusion. Think of how birds fly in a "V" formation, something emergent from each bird following the same simple rules.

A teen not abiding by the boundaries of society may be dealt with in a way that seems viciously over-reactive because maintaining order is the entire focus of each element of the legal/judicial system. The degree of infraction is less important than respecting the authority of the system itself. Like be an asshole to a judge or cop and see what happens - it shouldn't matter as much as it does, but everyone instantly feels the raw danger of doing such a thing because of this dynamic.

The problem is that "testing boundaries" is a natural phase of growing up and is really about coming to grips with your own identity and values. There is a huge disconnect between how "the system" (or people serving roles within the system) approach these situation vs. any actual threat to the system itself.

Re: When I was labeled a ‘troubled’ teen, I obliged

#47
The field of "Positive Discipline" [1] or "Positive Parenting" provides workable solutions. There may not be a quick fix. The idea is to reinforce good behavior while weaning bad ones. There are a ton of podcasts and books on this topic you can find using those keywords.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_discipline

edit: please explain your downvotes, thanks! As interesting as discussing the problems is, there is no end to that.

Re: When I was labeled a ‘troubled’ teen, I obliged

#48
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangential side note I have to mention about that Penn State thing. I was at the uni from 2011 to 2015 and my father served on the facility senate. Graham Spanier drew a salary from the university DESPITE being complicit in the cover-up until 2017. He merely was “removed from leadership.” It’s on us as a society to punish misuse of power more effectively. The consequences for misuse are often minor. https://apnews.co…

Since this account is ten minutes old I can only assume you made it to make this post anonymously, so I feel obliged to tell you that if one were inclined it would be trivially easy to find someone who graduated in 2015 with a father/parent in some form of [facility,faculty?] leadership. I don't think you're saying anything here that needs that kind of protection, but just something to keep in mind.

I appreciate the thoughtful advice. You probably could figure out who I am, but I’m a LONG time lurker and the comment was docile enough. Faculty senate is 200 across all 20+ branch campuses and rotates every year. The caution is just to make automated scrapping of accounts harder.

There are some truly cowardly people and malicious incentive structures there… but I met some good folk too I suppose. Shout out to the good professors there with the patience to do the right thing. They don’t always win.

WE ARE (human traffickers?). <:(

Re: When I was labeled a ‘troubled’ teen, I obliged

#49
It's hard read these stories and not wonder about the parents.

At the same time I'm often drawn to the story of my high school buddy's youngest sister. His family was as normal as you might expect, the kids were perhaps unusually "driven", but in good ways, music, athletics, academics, all three even.

But the youngest was driven to rebel in the most distributive ways possible, the usual running away from home, older / inappropriate men, drugs, alcohol. Everything short of physical violence, although that occurred too.

It got so bad it was almost impossible to physically keep her in the house or apply any kind of rules. Any rule was just a goal for her to obliterate and more.

The parents eventually sent her to some of these camps, she escaped, was notorious even among other troubled kids there.

It all took an incredible toll on her parents. Financial and psychological. They would have done anything to help her, anything, so at times they chose those camps, even if it seemed just to provide physical safety.

Eventually she turned 18 and left. Some contact here and there, she seemed to want the contact but also was aloof in a way. It seemed like she really kept in contact to keep up with the family dog more than anyone there.

Years later in her early 20s she showed up at the family house unannounced. She was pregnant, her mom answered the door and she asked if she could come home.

I don't know what happened between 18 and showing up that day, but after that day she was "back" and was a different girl. She worked for the family business for a while but she quit saying it wasn't for her. She took some college classes but didn't like school and the rules.

She eventually took a job at a pet store grooming pets and loved it. She started doing it privately and my wife's family financed her buying a truck and remodeling it into a mobile pet grooming van (this was really early in the days before mobile pet grooming was "a thing").

Eventually the previously very troubled girl had keys to any number of houses in town (so she could pickup the pets while the owners were away) and she has been great since, kids, family, met a great guy. She's a model local small business person, mom, etc.

I often want to ask her what changed, but I feel like mentioning it would reinforce a "troubled girl" label that I'm sure she knows some folks still think of her as.

As a parent now I think on that other girl. It's unsettling to think of. These kind of camps are disturbing, but in some cases ... I get it when you feel like you're out of options. There are kids who misbehave, and there's situations that are orders of magnitude beyond that.

Re: When I was labeled a ‘troubled’ teen, I obliged

#50
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do these cases not result in mass prosecutions? In Luzerne County, PA, judges were paid off by local juvenile detention centers to sentence kids there. Over years, they sentenced many, many kids, in court, for absurdities (e.g., I think one kid was sentenced for throwing a sandwich at their teacher). Much of the court system and local legal community had to know; nobody put a stop to it. Judicial conduct boards…

I don't think "the IT community" (is there even such a thing) has any sort of power where corruption in the traditional sense can even exist. Something like Kids for Cash is an institutional failing and requires the concerted effort and coordination of multiple, theoretically unrelated - or even opposed - parties that all have a lot of institutional power rarely found outside of government. Even huge multinational co…

Look at Lapsus$. They were enabled by corruption in the IT community. Due to effects of scale, corruption in IT doesn’t have to be widespread to have major effects worldwide.
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