51–60 of 255 posts
I have a difficult time understanding this. I was a kid that was rebellious, but in a way that didn't get me in trouble. When I read stories like this I get an intense feeling of fighting back, or at the very least, hold everyone that participated in contempt for the rest of my life. I am certain that if my parents had done something like this I would never have forgiven them. Nor would I have forgiven anyone that wo…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> How do these cases not result in mass prosecutions? In Luzerne County, PA, judges were paid off by local juvenile detention centers to sentence kids there. Over years, they sentenced many, many kids, in court, for absurdities (e.g., I think one kid was sentenced for throwing a sandwich at their teacher). Much of the court system and local legal community had to know; nobody put a stop to it. Judicial conduct boards…
I don't think "the IT community" (is there even such a thing) has any sort of power where corruption in the traditional sense can even exist. Something like Kids for Cash is an institutional failing and requires the concerted effort and coordination of multiple, theoretically unrelated - or even opposed - parties that all have a lot of institutional power rarely found outside of government. Even huge multinational co…
If you want to read something truly horrific check out elan.school . It was a troubled teen school in Maine that sounds unbelievable until you read multiple identical stories from students
Grim, but good.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
At a certain level it's not hard to understand, in that it's predictable: Power corrupts, and you can depend on it. People with power over vulnerable human beings, and with no check on their power, can be generally predicted to abuse it. Just look for those situations and I predict that you will often find it. (That's one reason transparency and openness are so important.) Look at child sex abuse scandals: Who do the…
Tangential side note I have to mention about that Penn State thing. I was at the uni from 2011 to 2015 and my father served on the facility senate. Graham Spanier drew a salary from the university DESPITE being complicit in the cover-up until 2017. He merely was “removed from leadership.” It’s on us as a society to punish misuse of power more effectively. The consequences for misuse are often minor. https://apnews.co…
Weren't Penn State U board members who punished the wrongdoing removed from office by their constituents?
My reasons for being sent there are similar to the author's. I didn't take my dad's car without permission, but I did drink a lot, skip school, was generally rebellious and refused to be disciplined. My issues were compounded by the fact that my mom had died when I was 11 years old and my dad worked in a field that required lots of travel, so he had a lot of trouble supervising me.
The school was terrible in its methods and I don't think their therapists were qualified. Males and females were completely segregated and talking to females would get you immediately thrown into "jumpsuit", which was the harshest discipline level and meant you lost all privileges and had to wear an orange jumpsuit 24/7.
Responsibilities were doled out in a few levels: on-shadow, shadower, and appropriate. An "appropriate" was the highest level of responsibility, trusted to monitor groups and make sure nobody broke rules or talked about inappropriate topics. "Shadows" were trusted to watch other people and help the appropriates deal with new kids and misbehavers. On-shadow just meant you always had to be with someone watching you and you didn't have any of the trust given to higher levels.
You weren't allowed to go anywhere without an "appropriate" and at least one other person. Even when I would take a shower or go to the bathroom, I had to have someone watching the door and waiting for me to finish.
Parent phone calls and visits were supervised by an "appropriate" until you got to higher privilege levels and were allowed to go off-campus. This was to prevent newer kids from complaining to their parents and getting their parents to take them out of the program.
Lots of the graduates were convinced by management to stay on for their "sobriety" and help as an employee/intern with the kids and dorms. I remember several graduates who stayed 6-12 months after their graduation doing this. Seemed like a scam to me.
One guy from my class ended up marrying one of the dorm monitors, who was an older, but attractive woman in her ~30s. This seemed really odd to me, I don't remember there being any opportunities to do anything like have inappropriate relationships, but things did apparently change after I left. I heard a few months later kids were doing crazy stuff like breaking into the medicine cabinet and the males/females started hooking up. But when I was there, that kind of stuff was out of the question and unheard of.
The only music we were allowed to listen to was really old stuff like Beatles, CCR... Movies were filtered for any scenes with alcohol or drug use, no talking about modern music, movies with drug use, drug use or partying / etc. was all forbidden topics that would get you in a ton of trouble. Punishments ranged from writing 40,000 god prayers to digging ditches or cleaning for hours.
Overall, I needed some kind of wake up call, but I ended up leaving when I turned 18. They threatened that I wouldn't graduate on-time and go to college, but I had already been accepted to university and I knew that most of my credits would transfer. I finished out the year at public high school, went to college, and moved on with my life.
Edit: I'm reading through https://elan.school , and it sounds like my school copied their program, even using a lot of the same terminology "strength" vs "non-strength" etc.
I have a difficult time understanding this. I was a kid that was rebellious, but in a way that didn't get me in trouble. When I read stories like this I get an intense feeling of fighting back, or at the very least, hold everyone that participated in contempt for the rest of my life. I am certain that if my parents had done something like this I would never have forgiven them. Nor would I have forgiven anyone that wo…
The author writes, > I was reckless, taking my mom’s car out for joy rides without permission, skipping class That may be after 16 years of doing outrageous things to get attention at home. Some psychologists in the 1950s [1] suggested kids will do whatever gets them attention while striving for a way to participate in the family. That can include bad behavior. If they don't receive attention for good behavior, then…
If someone seems irrational, it’s because their shoes are so different from any that you’ve been in. You simply have never experienced anything like their life (because if you did, you’d be like them).
And you can’t actually ask someone to explain their own behavior because everyone only lives one life and they rarely know in what way their shoes are different from someone else’s.
I have a difficult time understanding this. I was a kid that was rebellious, but in a way that didn't get me in trouble. When I read stories like this I get an intense feeling of fighting back, or at the very least, hold everyone that participated in contempt for the rest of my life. I am certain that if my parents had done something like this I would never have forgiven them. Nor would I have forgiven anyone that wo…
The author writes, > I was reckless, taking my mom’s car out for joy rides without permission, skipping class That may be after 16 years of doing outrageous things to get attention at home. Some psychologists in the 1950s [1] suggested kids will do whatever gets them attention while striving for a way to participate in the family. That can include bad behavior. If they don't receive attention for good behavior, then…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> How do these cases not result in mass prosecutions? In Luzerne County, PA, judges were paid off by local juvenile detention centers to sentence kids there. Over years, they sentenced many, many kids, in court, for absurdities (e.g., I think one kid was sentenced for throwing a sandwich at their teacher). Much of the court system and local legal community had to know; nobody put a stop to it. Judicial conduct boards…
I don't think "the IT community" (is there even such a thing) has any sort of power where corruption in the traditional sense can even exist. Something like Kids for Cash is an institutional failing and requires the concerted effort and coordination of multiple, theoretically unrelated - or even opposed - parties that all have a lot of institutional power rarely found outside of government. Even huge multinational co…
My advice was "look in the mirror"; I understand the parent's advice as "don't look in the mirror, there can't possibly be anything to see there".
Responses like that are why we see nothing, hear nothing (and shut it down - discredit it, attack it, etc. - immediately if we do), and do nothing. I expect that people in Luzerne County had denials too. People can talk about and around these things infinitely, and they do.
Therefore the only question we should ask is, what are we going to do?
Edit: Abusing children isn't the only corruption, in case that's how you interpreted it. The amount of scams, fraud, mass surveillance, manipulation, etc. in our industry is astounding.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the police, "justice" system, etc. are actually more interested in enforcing the existing social order than they are in being the good guys, or the letter or spirit of the law. What are you interested in? I know it's a provocative question, but blaming some 'system' is 90% of the problem. What am I interested in? My actions speak.
The "system" isn't a vague boogeyman but the product of individual decisions that funnel things in aggregate to a certain conclusion. Think of how birds fly in a "V" formation, something emergent from each bird following the same simple rules. A teen not abiding by the boundaries of society may be dealt with in a way that seems viciously over-reactive because maintaining order is the entire focus of each element of t…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
The author writes, > I was reckless, taking my mom’s car out for joy rides without permission, skipping class That may be after 16 years of doing outrageous things to get attention at home. Some psychologists in the 1950s [1] suggested kids will do whatever gets them attention while striving for a way to participate in the family. That can include bad behavior. If they don't receive attention for good behavior, then…
IIRC a tenet of developmental psychology that the worst thing for children is neglect - it's worse than abuse (and that isn't downplaying abuse in any way), because the abused child is getting attention. Children are absolutely dependent on their parents for survival (literally, food, water, shelter, protection, safety), for understanding the world, for learning. Neglect, the absence of parenting, is terrifying.