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Ask HN: Why isn't there a Google competitor emerging?

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Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a Google competitor emerging?

#231

Post by janmajayamall »

What do you think of a p2p marketplace for search queries? You post your query to the p2p network that consists of indexers. Indexers interested in servicing your query would place a bid (i.e. the charge), from which you select one. The selected indexer would then service your query.

I think this would allow a competitive market for indexers in different verticals to emerge.

Most probably you wouldn't want to use it for every small query. But in situations when you need high quality results in some domain, the p2p marketplace would be a good choice.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a Google competitor emerging?

#232

Post by tmh88j »

arrakis2021 wrote: post #221
keyme wrote: post #196

The internet is too different now to what Google (or any SE) was designed to index. Too much of the up-to-date high value information is posted onto semi-public channels. Like facebook groups, instagram posts, telegram channels, etc. At the same time, too much of the publicly available websites are becoming clickbait and mindless marketing drivel. Just try to research anything slightly obscure that has to be up-to-da…

This. Whenever I search anything informative, I append “Reddit” to the phrase to get the top Reddit threads about the topic. Everything else in the SERPS is usually SEO trash

Is there a way to provide a date range when specifying a site? I frequently append reddit to my google searches as well, but the results often include outdated posts. I don't want restaurant/service/whatever reviews from 7+ years ago.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a Google competitor emerging?

#233

Post by mgkimsal »

mgkimsal wrote: post #142
jasode wrote: post #14

>, what would a competitor need to defy Google? One thing a competitor needs is a new and innovative technical algorithm . Back in 1998, Google's PageRank was an innovative algorithm that calculated relevance based on counting back links instead of parsing the word counts in embedded HTML text like other search engines. This created a noticeable improvement in quality of results. Nobody seems to have The Next Big Ide…

"next big idea" is probably "selectable algorithms". Create 3-5 different search algorithms, with names and understandable characteristics, then let me choose which one when searching. You may have some algorithm that prioritizes recency, or rapid changes, or more interaction, and others that prioritize longevity, citations/links, others that prioritize that type of information - prioritize regional or noteworthy eve…

EDIT: adding on to previous post.

We now have a couple digital generations of folks who've grown up with 'web', and we've generated billions of 'documents'.

TIME ACCURATE QUERIES need to be mainstream.

"Let me search for FOOBAR and get results that would have been accurate/returned for Dec 11, 2006. Now search for FOOBAR and get results from Dec 11, 2014", etc.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a Google competitor emerging?

#234

Post by antli35 »

mgkimsal wrote: post #174
antli35 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could be a niche search engine for advanced users, but I feel that to average users this would be a strictly worse experience because they have no interest in figuring out how to "select an algorithm." They expect to type a query and the result they want comes up at the top. The search engine should be able to infer whether the user wants results that are more recent, more interactive, more authoritative, etc. b…

3 big buttons at the top after search results "You're viewing through FOOBAR lens. Click here to view results from another lens". Doesn't have to be that complicated.

To some extent that's already implemented in the form of the various tabs - if you want very recent results, go to the News tab or click the Tools button and select a time range. If you want academic results with citations, go to Google Scholar. If you want information from books, go to the Books tab. If you don't know/care, the main tab will mix results from all tabs.

You can add three more buttons on top of the tabs that are already there, but would their value for more advanced users be worth the extra friction/confusion for average users? And how would it scale if someone wants a fourth, fifth, or tenth "lens"?

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a Google competitor emerging?

#235

Post by engineeringwoke »

onion2k wrote: post #152

Google pays Apple ~$10bn a year to be the default search engine on Apple devices. They pay Mozilla a significant percentage of Mozilla's revenue to be the default in Firefox. Obviously Google is the default in Chrome. You can't compete with that by building a better search engine. Even if you had the infrastructure, capital, and you offered Apple and Mozilla more money than they get from Google, Google could beat you…

What if an entity like the EU mandated that google make a public search index API, which would allow any competitor to create a low-cost clone. Google gets to stand as it is, relying on its brand and extra suite of tools to compete.

It's heavy handed, but if you view search indexing as a natural monopoly, it's relatively simple for how effective it would be at curtailing market power.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a Google competitor emerging?

#236

Post by jonas21 »

tmh88j wrote: post #232
arrakis2021 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Whenever I search anything informative, I append “Reddit” to the phrase to get the top Reddit threads about the topic. Everything else in the SERPS is usually SEO trash

Is there a way to provide a date range when specifying a site? I frequently append reddit to my google searches as well, but the results often include outdated posts. I don't want restaurant/service/whatever reviews from 7+ years ago.

Press "Tools", then change "Any time" to "Custom range" and set the range you want.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a Google competitor emerging?

#237

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #100
samwillis wrote: post #89

Ultimately I think it’s because the internet is just too big! Google were only able to do it because they had the right algorithm early in the age of the internet. They were then able to grow with it to achieve the scale required. Starting from scratch now on a general internet search engine would be close to impossible without 10s, if not 100s, billions of investment. And you would need that to build the index befor…

I think your post is key. I would be interested in anyone posting what they think is an economically viable path to challenging Google. Pretty much the one company that has done it at scale (Microsoft) isn't exactly eating Google's lunch (though I think there are a few areas that Bing is better). It would just take at astronomical amount of capital to challenge Google at generic Internet search, and the few organizat…

Would there be a way to crowdsource the web crawling effort? Crawling@Home? I think that even with this you'd need a legal department to deal with takedown requests and illegal material.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a Google competitor emerging?

#240

Post by zw123456 »

mgkimsal wrote: post #142
jasode wrote: post #14

>, what would a competitor need to defy Google? One thing a competitor needs is a new and innovative technical algorithm . Back in 1998, Google's PageRank was an innovative algorithm that calculated relevance based on counting back links instead of parsing the word counts in embedded HTML text like other search engines. This created a noticeable improvement in quality of results. Nobody seems to have The Next Big Ide…

"next big idea" is probably "selectable algorithms". Create 3-5 different search algorithms, with names and understandable characteristics, then let me choose which one when searching. You may have some algorithm that prioritizes recency, or rapid changes, or more interaction, and others that prioritize longevity, citations/links, others that prioritize that type of information - prioritize regional or noteworthy eve…

I agree with you on this. I search for tech topics a lot and google offers an option to search "scholarly articles". I like that option as sometimes a tech term gets confused with something else. It would be great if there was a way to select from some check boxed, like an advanced search, "search only for semiconductor datasheets" or "search all Jazz music" or upload a picture and "identify an insect" (agree that does not work well yet) or whatever someone might be interested in.

The question is if such an approach would lure a lot of people away, I could see an entry angle might be a front end to google with an app that does that.

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