Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Mourning loss as a remote team

sofuckingagile.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

351–360 of 408 posts

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#351

Post by magpi3 »

anonporridge wrote: post #260
pizza wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once heard this in response to a discussion of an org's virtue signalling. What do you make of it, in this context? A man had been injured on a journey and was lying on the road, wounded. A good Samaritan saw him and helped him get up. Onlookers then retorted, "Well, the good Samaritan only helped him get up to signal their virtue!"

An evolutionary psychologist might argue something like that. Another way to put it, is that while the individual might act selflessly with pure and honest empathy, with no conscious expectation of something in return, this kind of behavior wouldn't have survived in our gene pool if there wasn't some evolutionary advantage to behaving that way. So, the onlookers would really have to specify whether they're talking ab…

> Alternatively, I could also say that the good Samaritan is actually acting in a way that is a detriment to his survival, and only happens because of a bug in his generic and psychological programming or an old beneficial feature that is no longer good for a new environment and will eventually be removed via natural selection.

Evolution does not "work" on behalf of individuals. It works on behalf of species. So if a member of a species is willing to sacrifice himself or take risks for the whole, that is an evolutionary feature not a bug.

If a species were truly focused on the individual, I imagine it would quickly die out, which, let's face it, seems like a threat to our species in our modern world when people choose not to have kids because they don't want the responsibilties involved.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#352

Post by AussieWog93 »

all_factz wrote: post #329
AussieWog93 wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue it's understood poorly and discussed in an unhelpful way. My own struggles have taught me that at least in some cases it seems to be more like a "mental obesity" than a "mental disease". It's not necessarily that there's something wrong with the person's brain, but that their depression/anxiety is a perfectly normal reaction to a lifestyle that's toxic. If you never take the time to do the activities yo…

This is a bit of a chicken-or-egg problem. If you’re depressed, you don’t have the energy to do the beneficial things you’re recommending above. So I come back to the idea that you need to look inward, into the core causes of your depression, and make some sort of peace with them — freeing you to move forward. Therapy helps.

>If you’re depressed, you don’t have the energy to do the beneficial things you’re recommending above.

That's just not true. You can't do all of them, of course, but you can take one step at a time over the course of months/years. It's a positive feedback loop that really does help.

>If you’re depressed, you don’t have the energy to do the beneficial things you’re recommending above.

Again, I'm not sure this is true either (at least in the general case). For many people, there's no obvious cause for their depression, but they "just are". There's no peace that needs to be made or trauma that needs integrating, just learning to live life in a way that isn't toxic to your mind.

For me, therapy and mindfulness meditation were both beyond useless.

Learning to stop over-intellectualising everything and implementing strategies to make mundane, day-to-day life more pleasant and wholesome has done wonders.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#353

Post by [deleted] »

icecap12 wrote: post #337
thematrixturtle wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Similarly, it has a few contractors, and every single one of those guys is treated like an FTE, with regular 1x1s, objectives, and personal development. If you work in a large company, HR is going to have a shit fit when they find out. And if you don't, why not just hire them full time?

I would rather have a team of all-FTEs than a mix. But the company wants more contractors because when cost-pressures arise, they can dump them without any thought. In fact this happened during COVID, hundreds of contractors at my firm were let go in one fell-swoop. Some FTEs were also cut, but it was like a 4-1 margin of contractors to FTEs, maybe more.

[deleted]

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#354

Post by noisy_boy »

sinsterizme wrote: post #264
treis wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>An individual's relationship with their immediate boss is one of those intimate things in life and it deserves sanctity. I think there's a fundamental divide between people. Some see the workplace and the people in it as an integral part of their life. Others see it as a place they spend 40 hours a week that enables them to live their actual life. Neither are wrong and I think a lot depends on the type of company yo…

I’m of the former opinion and it boggles the mind a bit thinking that some people view the place they spend the majority of their waking hours as ancillary to their “real life.” Maybe my real life is just boring though :p

For me, the definition of what is "real" is: will I continue to be engaged if I didn't have to, e.g., if I was free of my need to work. My boss doesn't fall in that category, my friends (childhood / some good friends I made in my career) do. Is it possible to have a great boss who you can also consider a friend/mentor well after you are not working for them? Definitely, but that doesn't happen that often. So in absence of having that kind of relationship, yes, they are ancillary to my real life. How much time I spend with them in the work setting has nothing to do with it.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#355

Post by kasztelan222 »

supernovae wrote: post #85
supertofu wrote: post #2

This was heartbreaking to read. What disturbs me most is the lack of any face-to-face time for this distributed team. I understand that not everyone likes to use a webcam, but to have gone 7 years without ever seeing your colleague's face seems, in my opinion, a symptom of a big managerial problem. Software engineers are usually humans, and teams composed of humans should make some effort to interact in a human way -…

Depression is something we never talk about and don’t treat as a health concern. My daughter attempted suicide and it wasn’t for any reasons I could relate to. That was a hard lesson for me. What i did learn is that depression is taboo, therapy isn’t talked about openly, insurance doesn’t cover therapy well and there aren’t enough therapists in existence that the burden of depression seems to heavy. It’s not because…

Depression is hard. Much harder on the side of people having it, but being a manager and knowing people with that illness is also not easy.

My company (Europe branch of big US corpo) was actually pretty good with handling that. They offered paid leave for one guy who wanted a intense therapy/camp. Unfortunately covid came and ended the program. The guy eventually left not long after.

I noticed very similar behaviors between the two people with depression I had in my team even though they were completely different otherwise. I still meet them occasionally for a beer and I really like them on personal level but they weren't good employees even though I did everything I could (I think?) to make their working conditions... good? (sorry couldn't find better English word). Flexible working hours, decision if they want smaller or bigger tasks, regular meetings, etc.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#356

Post by babyshake »

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #345
dvtrn wrote: post #88

Pete would ask to work more hours. He claimed he could use the money. He was a contractor remember Amidst the loss here, this line stood out to me and brings to mind all the terrible ways contractors are taken advantage of, or at least, treated and compensated vastly different than their "staff"/"full-time" peers who are often doing the exact same work . For fun, google the phrase "permatemp". E.g. I had a past job a…

This happens at my BigCo job too. We literally are not allowed to give any official recognition of the incredibly hard work and immense talent of our contractors. "Contractors" - the human beings we work with day in and out, that build amazing products, that we joke with, share holiday photos with, wish well when they're sick, urge to take a break every once in a while, who seem to work well into what should be their…

And let me guess, when it comes to the types of work assigned to them they are not treated like the types of completely fungible hourly workers that you would expect from the type of treatment you describe?

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#357

Post by pflanze »

dschulz wrote: post #306

Back in 2020 I could very well have been the Pete in this story. I was struggling so bad with mental health issues, financial issues. On top of that, my father was giving the figh to prostatic cancer. I was just starting working remotely for the first time for a Canadian company. My employers were the nicest guys I have ever meet online and I was thrilled to have been asked to work for them as a software developer. A…

Oh my, I hope you're feeling OK now. Some of what you're saying rings familiar to me, I've got a German/Swiss cultural background and was in Canada, and do think this background can give difficulties. I also do think that mental health problems are difficult for others to do anything with, so it may have made them nervous and act counter productively. I hope you're finding or have found good therapy. Let me know if you'd like to talk (contact in my profile).

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#358

Post by nine_k »

anonporridge wrote: post #260
pizza wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once heard this in response to a discussion of an org's virtue signalling. What do you make of it, in this context? A man had been injured on a journey and was lying on the road, wounded. A good Samaritan saw him and helped him get up. Onlookers then retorted, "Well, the good Samaritan only helped him get up to signal their virtue!"

An evolutionary psychologist might argue something like that. Another way to put it, is that while the individual might act selflessly with pure and honest empathy, with no conscious expectation of something in return, this kind of behavior wouldn't have survived in our gene pool if there wasn't some evolutionary advantage to behaving that way. So, the onlookers would really have to specify whether they're talking ab…

To reap benefits of cooperation, there is no need to signal it. It still helps the species survive and thrive, even if the only organism aware of an act of cooperation is the one providing help.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#359

Post by saghm »

anonporridge wrote: post #206
HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the worst! I remember when a long-time team member died unexpectedly one weekend. We all learned about it at the Monday standup meeting and we luckily had the common sense to cancel the standup because no one wanted to talk. A number of us went to the funeral and his wife told me (I had met her once before) that she was so happy that his co-workers came to pay their respects. It made her feel that he had a la…

> I hate, hate, hate the way corps try to brush away any unpleasantness like ignoring it means it didn't happen! I personally don't mind it. It's a good reminder that we as individuals are just replaceable cogs in the machine, that all of us are only as valuable as the productivity we can contribute in the future, and that our sense of loyalty to it should be adjusted accordingly. Don't ever expect a corporation of a…

> I personally don't mind it. It's a good reminder that we as individuals are just replaceable cogs in the machine, that all of us are only as valuable as the productivity we can contribute in the future, and that our sense of loyalty to it should be adjusted accordingly.

To the company as a whole, yes. To each other? No, I don't think I believe this. This doesn't mean you owe anything to your teammates in terms of staying in a job if a better opportunity comes or if you aren't happy or treated right, but we're still all human beings seeing each other every day, and if you build a bond with those you work with, it's not any less real just because you only happened to meet due to the coincidence of being hired by the company. I've only been out of college for less than a decade, and I've had some coworkers I did not get along at all with, some who I was indifferent towards, a great many I had casual friendly relationships with, and a select few who are this point are as close to any friends I've met outside work and remained that way after one or both of us moved on from the job where we met. I still don't think I'd be completely emotionally unaffected if someone who I was currently working with in the first two categories happened to die, and I certainly would be if someone I worked with in one of the latter two groups did. It's not at all uncommon to feel grief or numbness when even a casual acquaintance outside of work dies, and the fact that whatever company you work for happens to consider you only a value-generating machine doesn't magically make this go away. Humans are humans even when working together, and I don't think pretending that's not the case is in any way more emotionally healthy than acknowledging it.

Post reply on HN