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The Russians Fleeing Putin's Wartime Crackdown

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Re: The Russians Fleeing Putin's Wartime Crackdown

#41

Post by zen_1 »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #9
Femtio wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Yeah, taking part in every protest against Putin in the last 12 years, being detained at a protest wasn't enough punishment for me. I should better perish in the announced coming purge of the fifth column, because persons like you like to feel good about themselves making statements like this one you made. You people are exactly like the ones who were turning away Jews fleeing the Nazi Germany. And if you think that…

I find it quite rich when people who have only ever lived in democracies condescend to those living in dictatorships about how we should have simply "protested harder" against the status quo.

I'm sorry Mr. Virtue Signaler safe in SF or NYC, but if my choices are shutting up temporarily in exchange for my and my family's continued security, versus "speaking truth to power" (or some other such drivel) and waking up in a black site the next day, I know which one I'm taking.

Re: The Russians Fleeing Putin's Wartime Crackdown

#42

Post by ZoomZoomZoom »

yostrovs wrote: post #8
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #3

It would be so much easier for any skilled worker to flee Russia if various western companies would stop virtue signalling and stop this trend of cancelling all services for Russians. By doing this they feel good, but are actually helping Putin and his criminal gang. I was ready for our criminal government to start building a Russian Firewall to hinder access to non-government propaganda for Russian Citizens, but I w…

Quoted post unavailable.

> And that punishment is not decided by the one being punished.

Ah, so that's what it is. Not the mechanism of economical pressure on a dictator, not the attempt at containment or instigating political unrest inside the country. Punishment. Thanks for being straight.

Well, we'll see how well this works. I doubt it will do any good in the long run, unfortunately for everyone.

Re: The Russians Fleeing Putin's Wartime Crackdown

#43

Post by pjdemers »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #17
imtringued wrote: post #5

There is no way this war is fought for the benefit of Russia as a whole, not even in the form of a neo soviet union. Russia isn't threatened directly by the west, nuclear weapons are a sufficient deterrent and Europe is a loyal customer of coal, gas and oil. If nuclear weapons grant super power status amongst nations, then Russia is doing everything in its power to reduce its ability to maintain its current nuclear c…

>I sure hope Putin is an evil genius because if he isn't I can only say "Say goodbye to your super power status, Russia, and enjoy your hard fought international insignificance!" I never understood what Putin's end game was here with this war, what can he earn extra of what he doesn't already have? He's already one of the world's richest men and he's already quite old. Couldn't he just like take his insane wealth and…

>> I never understood what Putin's end game was here with this war

His endgame is to prevent free democratic elections in Ukraine. He sees Ukraine as the country most similar to Russia. He wants to prevent elections in Ukraine, because what works in Ukraine will work in Russia. And the very last thing he wants is free elections in Russia.

Re: The Russians Fleeing Putin's Wartime Crackdown

#44

Post by eikeegi »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #3

It would be so much easier for any skilled worker to flee Russia if various western companies would stop virtue signalling and stop this trend of cancelling all services for Russians. By doing this they feel good, but are actually helping Putin and his criminal gang. I was ready for our criminal government to start building a Russian Firewall to hinder access to non-government propaganda for Russian Citizens, but I w…

Russians have had 20 odd years to do something about their government. I would argue that if you are a citizen of Russia, you are the Putin ally here by letting things go so bad. I understand that NOW it is a lot harder to reform the system or bring about any positive changes. This ship has probably sailed. The Russian people are now reaping what they perhaps not sowed, but have ALLOWED to grow.

You are really not the victim nor others the idiots. The world just is having a bit courage to show what they feel about Russia. To put it nicely - Russia has so far been tolerated.

I'm slightly puzzled by the phrase "Estonian company, no less" (I am an Estonian myself).

Re: The Russians Fleeing Putin's Wartime Crackdown

#45

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

timeon wrote: post #35
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On what basis you say that 'there's almost no resistance'? Have you seen anti-war protests? Do you know the potential personal costs of such protests?

Have you been protesting?

Yes.

Re: The Russians Fleeing Putin's Wartime Crackdown

#46

Post by Viliam1234 »

bergie wrote: post #39
Barrin92 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Couldn't he just like take his insane wealth and retire to some Caribbean island Putin isn't a startup founder. The man has no interest in leaving Russia and if you go and read his piece on the question of Ukrainian and Russian statehood[1] it's very clear that to him, Ukraine has historical and even spiritual significance. Going all the way back to the Kievan Rus he sees the three peoples of Belarus, Ukraine and Ru…

For somebody who doesn’t “care a single bit about money” he certainly has gathered a significant amount of material wealth for himself, his mistresses, etc. But then again, since you’re taking his ridiculous casus belli scribblings at a face value, there’s little I can do to convince you.

Yeah. "He now has goals other than money (because he already has all the money he could possibly need)" makes sense. "He never cared about money" is incompatible with reality.

Similarly, it makes sense that he would selfishly prefer to be historically remembered as the guy who unified Russia, Belarus, and Ukraine, rather than the most successful thief after the fall of communism. The citizens of Ukraine (and probably also Belarus) are not happy about it, but I guess the idea is that after being conquered and brainwashed and all dissidents thrown in jail, maybe their grandchildren will feel like happy patriots of the Greater Russia -- and if they won't, well, it's not like in Russia anyone actually cares about what people think (unless it is telling them what to think).

Re: The Russians Fleeing Putin's Wartime Crackdown

#47

Post by nofuture1 »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #3

It would be so much easier for any skilled worker to flee Russia if various western companies would stop virtue signalling and stop this trend of cancelling all services for Russians. By doing this they feel good, but are actually helping Putin and his criminal gang. I was ready for our criminal government to start building a Russian Firewall to hinder access to non-government propaganda for Russian Citizens, but I w…

This really hurts. I left Russia a while ago, have not paid taxes there since then, and otherwise have no connection to the country, but I still feel like everyone hates me because of my passport and my language. It seems we truly are the new Germans as they were around 1940s.

None of it matters right now. The current goal is to stop the war at any cost, and people are just trying to do something. I suggest we have a discussion about what we can do to help despite the (indiscriminate) pressure.

Re: The Russians Fleeing Putin's Wartime Crackdown

#48

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

m-p-3 wrote: post #26
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Ultimately, the only legitimate way to remove Putin is for its people to evict him, either through election or protestation. There are only so many ways to increase the pressure at the international level that won't impact the lives of the casual citizen of Russia.

Protestations would be simply drowned in blood. See how Ukraine is doing against Putin's machine - and they have weapons, Javelins, Bayraktars, tanks, and big support of the West, including asylum for non-combatants.

Would EU countries give refuge to families of Russian people fighting the government,or fleeing the coming purges? No, they'll better cut off Russians from the Internet [1].

[1]: https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/5/22962822/internet-backbone...

Re: The Russians Fleeing Putin's Wartime Crackdown

#49

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

tomjen3 wrote: post #40
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #3

It would be so much easier for any skilled worker to flee Russia if various western companies would stop virtue signalling and stop this trend of cancelling all services for Russians. By doing this they feel good, but are actually helping Putin and his criminal gang. I was ready for our criminal government to start building a Russian Firewall to hinder access to non-government propaganda for Russian Citizens, but I w…

It would also make it less desirable to move. Besides the biggest hindrance of the emigraes is probably the bank account USD limit, but that is all Russias doing.

There are no limits for payments from Russian side. If not for visa/mastercard restrictions, Russian cards with RUB balance would still be available for payments abroad.

But yes, the current situation is that anti-government Russians are being actively strangled from both from within and from abroad.

Re: The Russians Fleeing Putin's Wartime Crackdown

#50

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

overkalix wrote: post #37
Femtio wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might sound stupid but perhaps it's the same restlessness everyone has? What do I now after building my home? Doing the garden. Okay what now? Also a little bit like CK: he was musturbating in front of a few woman in the office and did not get spoken out. He took the Crimea without real troubles perhaps this combined with him being allowed to poison people around the world and hacking the west gave him the feeling th…

I might very well be mistaken, but this war and Russia's belligerence during the last 10 years never seemed to me a matter of ambition and territorial expansion, but rather desperation. Putin is 70, and his death will certainly plunge Russia into a period of turmoil. It doesn't matter if a successor is anointed by big P himself. The democratic opposition will see it as an opportunity for reform. The political and mil…

>Putin is 70, and his death will certainly plunge Russia into a period of turmoil.

As if Russia is currently a bastion of stability.

It's only stable now because everyone is afraid of being gulaged if they speak up, similar to a lighter version of the purge in the Stalin days.

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