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Lawmakers Drink Raw Milk to Celebrate Legality, Become Immediately Sick (2016)

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Re: Lawmakers Drink Raw Milk to Celebrate Legality, Become Immediately Sick (2016)

#81

Post by rtpg »

oneepic wrote: post #72
RC_ITR wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s amazing that in a supposedly science-driven forum, an entire set of comments can imply that pasteurization, one of humanity’s great accomplishments, is a folly. People die from drinking raw milk. It is genuinely a risky thing to do. Not everyone will die but enough that society should work hard to limit it as much as possible.

It's just a forum. People share science AND personal stories.

“I did this and was fine. Therefore I think it is fine” is half of these stories.

It is of course possible to say “I was fine but probably was lucky”, which is at least acknowledging that food science is a thing and probably closer to the truth than your singular personal experience.

GP is pointing out that people take personal stories and turn them into some science-sounding conclusion.

If the internet existed in the 18th century people would talk about how London didn’t have sanitation systems but loads of people survived so all this nonsense about sewage management is silly.

Re: Lawmakers Drink Raw Milk to Celebrate Legality, Become Immediately Sick (2016)

#82

Post by chii »

RC_ITR wrote: post #69
mngnt wrote: post #59

When I was a kid, we lived in a village in northeastern Slovakia. On the hill above the village there was a farm with a big herd of cows. And every morning at around 5, a tractor would bring a few dozen litres of milk down to a small shack just by our house. People were usually waiting in line already, in a room that stank of rancid milk, to get a liter or two. When we brought the milk home, we'd pour a cup and let i…

It’s amazing that in a supposedly science-driven forum, an entire set of comments can imply that pasteurization, one of humanity’s great accomplishments, is a folly. People die from drinking raw milk. It is genuinely a risky thing to do. Not everyone will die but enough that society should work hard to limit it as much as possible.

I think instead of straight prohibit, raw milk should be purchasable if the buyer understands the dangers, and knows how to treat their own usage so that it's safe - for example, they boil it themselves.

There's plenty of things that are dangerous and can kill you, but we don't and shouldn't prohibit it all. Instead, society should aim to educate, and also put in warning labels etc.

Re: Lawmakers Drink Raw Milk to Celebrate Legality, Become Immediately Sick (2016)

#83

Post by rupi »

Growing up in a village in India, we only ever bought raw milk because there was no packaged milk available. Everyone had a deal with a local farmer. Every morning or evening, we would walk over to the farmer's house, pick up our milk and bring it home. My family in India (and the whole village) still does that.

And this is where the similarity ends.

The first thing my mom (and everyone else) did is to boil the milk to pasteurize it. Once boiled, it is allowed to cool down till a layer of fat forms on top. That is removed to make butter and ghee out of. Milk is then used and refrigerated.

No one ever drank (or drinks) raw milk - not the farmers, not their workers, not the buyers. It boggles my mind that people are willing to take the risk by drinking raw milk.

Re: Lawmakers Drink Raw Milk to Celebrate Legality, Become Immediately Sick (2016)

#84

Post by perlpimp »

elhudy wrote: post #21

I put raw cream in my coffee daily, but don’t have the balls to drink raw milk. That said, it makes fantastic yogurt. I don’t really understand the concept of illegal raw milk though. Why can’t people consume raw milk if they want? If anything, make it illegal to feed to children (except of course, raw breast milk!!)

I will try, generally if you have good diaries keeping their cow healthy happy and clean it is non issue, but interests of corporate mega producers they can't guarantee such thing at scale. So to protect them and people from them these laws are made kind of impossible triangle.

You can't do raw milk at scale - so no one will be allowed to. Raw milk yogurt and cottage cheese is out of this world my mom(Russian) and friends in Lithuania with a farm make this as well at the farm and the difference is night and day. you really should try full fat raw milk cottage cheese with honey and walnuts.

Re: Lawmakers Drink Raw Milk to Celebrate Legality, Become Immediately Sick (2016)

#85

Post by rndgermandude »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #23
ravenstine wrote: post #7

Honestly, I suspect this kind of thing happens as a result of a diet devoid of microbial life and non-denatured proteins. I used to get not full on sick, but pretty sick after eating raw or partially raw meat. You may think it's crazy, but I just continued doing it and eventually stopped getting diarrhea and cramps. David Blaine (I think) talked about a similar effect from when he practiced swallowing live frogs. He…

Why were you eating raw meat, may I ask?

Not that person, but...

In Germany, eating Mettbrötchen is rather popular in certain regions, and somewhat popular in the rest. As far as I know, that also applies to some neighboring nations.

A Mettbrötchen is basically minced raw pork with some salt, pepper and other spices, with onions on top or worked inside the meat. You put that on a baked roll (or sometimes other bread). There is also Mettwurst (sausage), although that's often at least smoked. Rarely the mett you'd eat raw is a mix of raw pork and raw beef. Mett may only be sold on the same day it was prepared, but it's rather popular so you will find it in basically every supermarket (especially the ones with in-house butchers), or you can buy ready to eat Mettbrötchen/Mettbrote (rolls/bread) in basically every full service bakery and some self-service ones.

I am not really fond of that to the point I would prepare that for myself, but have occasionally indulged when offered.

Bonus picture: Mettigel (mett hedgehog), which is for various popculture reasons a popular way to decorate the mett (before you put some of it on a roll/bread)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/Mettigel...

Re: Lawmakers Drink Raw Milk to Celebrate Legality, Become Immediately Sick (2016)

#86

Post by [deleted] »

rtpg wrote: post #71
mngnt wrote: post #59

When I was a kid, we lived in a village in northeastern Slovakia. On the hill above the village there was a farm with a big herd of cows. And every morning at around 5, a tractor would bring a few dozen litres of milk down to a small shack just by our house. People were usually waiting in line already, in a room that stank of rancid milk, to get a liter or two. When we brought the milk home, we'd pour a cup and let i…

If you made cocoa you boiled the milk right? Thats you pasteurizing the milk, right? I’ll also contend that you probably did get sick but did not put 2 and 2 together at the time (just like how loads of people run around with a cough and a fever and are like “yeah but it’s not COVID”). The whole “I drink this all the time so it’s fine” is basically the whole point of food sanitation things in general. High risk stuff…

[deleted]

Re: Lawmakers Drink Raw Milk to Celebrate Legality, Become Immediately Sick (2016)

#87

Post by sbierwagen »

changoplatanero wrote: post #28
seiferteric wrote: post #6

> a bill that makes it legal to drink (but not sell) Woah it was illegal to drink! Even if you produced it from your own cow/goat etc? Personally I have no desired to drink raw milk, but I do hope raw milk cheese becomes more common/legal in the US.

I visited a friends parents out in the country once and they served us raw milk. “Isn’t that illegal?” I asked. They said that it’s illegal to sell it but that they pick it up at an unmanned stand where there is free milk and a jar where people can leave “donations”.

>unmanned

And unrefrigerated?

I assume raw milk does not instantly spoil at room temperature, otherwise human history would look very different, but it can't last long in direct sunlight.

Re: Lawmakers Drink Raw Milk to Celebrate Legality, Become Immediately Sick (2016)

#88

Post by folli »

seiferteric wrote: post #6

> a bill that makes it legal to drink (but not sell) Woah it was illegal to drink! Even if you produced it from your own cow/goat etc? Personally I have no desired to drink raw milk, but I do hope raw milk cheese becomes more common/legal in the US.

You can't compare raw milk to (properly produced) raw milk cheese.

For cheese fermentation, you inoculate non-pathogenic (and even beneficial) bacterial strains in the milk that overgrow and outcompete pathogenic bacteria. That's actually the reason why cheese (and yogurt for that matter) exists at all, it's an invention that allowed longer storage of milk.

Same for other types of fermentation, such as sausages, kimchi, beer...

Re: Lawmakers Drink Raw Milk to Celebrate Legality, Become Immediately Sick (2016)

#89

Post by zamfi »

petre wrote: post #41
spyder wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steak_tartare

One could still freeze it like sushi fish to get rid of at least some of the pathogens.

One would think so, but it turns out, not really — the big concern in sushi fish is usually parasitic worms (like anisakiasis), which are live multicellular organisms that don’t survive freezing.

In chicken, beef, and pork, the concern is typically bacteria (like salmonella, and e. coli) or parasite cysts (like trichinosis), which are not killed by freezing.

Re: Lawmakers Drink Raw Milk to Celebrate Legality, Become Immediately Sick (2016)

#90

Post by skummetmaelk »

folli wrote: post #79
elhudy wrote: post #21

I put raw cream in my coffee daily, but don’t have the balls to drink raw milk. That said, it makes fantastic yogurt. I don’t really understand the concept of illegal raw milk though. Why can’t people consume raw milk if they want? If anything, make it illegal to feed to children (except of course, raw breast milk!!)

Why is it illegal to not wear a seat belt in most societies? Why are there limits on lead content in food stuff? Why are there any regulations at all? Some of the comments in this thread really left my head scratching. Food borne pathogens were a major burden on humankind for millennia, advances in microbiology and hygiene have massively improved the life span. All of that gets belittled in the comments as some minor…

It must be some weird blindness to the privilege of living in a mostly well organized and safe society. The rules were established a long time ago and do their job like a well oiled IT support department. Invisible to the common person when it works well. Unfortunately they then start questioning why it is necessary.
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