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Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

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Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#371

Post by aeternum »

edgyquant wrote: post #284
aeternum wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I brought up the example of pre-tipping. It is clearly not a fee but it is generally accepted. If you hand the Valet a $20 and say please park it close, is it a tip, fee, or bribe? How about at a bar, can you tell the bar tender "I have an extra $5 if you make it a heavy pour"? How about attending the Salesforce conference but it's mostly because you want to visit SF and see Metallica/Chainsmokers? We hav…

That’s because none of those things are bribes. The definition of bribe is * persuade (someone) to act in one's favor, typically illegally or dishonestly, by a gift of money or other inducement.* Tipping your waitress isn’t illegally or dishonestly persuading someone to act in your favor.

Sure it is, tipping a bartender for a heavy pour can be interpreted as colluding with the bartender to steal alcohol from the bar owner. Both illegal and dishonest.

Asking your company to send you to Salesforce just to see Metallica/Chainsmokers is clearly dishonest, the expectation is that your primary reason for going is to network and learn + represent your company.

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#372

Post by known »

tyrfing wrote: post #196
cute_boi wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is an anomaly, and we are lucky that people like him exist. The system incentivizes pretentious, artifice people who trick people via skulduggery. And, M$ should realize that committing such unforgivable sins like corruption in Africa means they are responsible for hunger and poverty in Africa. If the atrocities were committed by Chinese/Indian companies, the media would have vehemently criticized those countries…

> If the atrocities were committed by Chinese/Indian companies, the media would have vehemently criticized those countries and companies. But, as long as US and EU are involved media seems to be silent which I don't like. That's ridiculous. Compare Ericsson to ZTE/Huawei, for example. Of course it'll get coverage in the US media though, it's mainly the US DOJ that will prosecute those foreign companies for bribery -…

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Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#373

Post by lizknope »

I've been working in the tech industry for 25 years. I've probably watched 10 different corporate ethics training videos that cover bribery and inappropriate gifts. At the end we have to answer a quiz to prove we weren't asleep.

In all my time I have never had any control over money and no way to bribe someone even if I wanted to.

About 5 years ago I check my email in the morning and there are emails from the corporate legal and PR teams about not answering any questions from reporters about a certain employee. They state this person is no longer an employee.

I immediately google his name and find that he has been arrested on foreign bribery charges.

Everyone in our team was laughing that he must have forgotten to take the mandatory corporate ethics and anti bribery training.

What is the point of making us watch all these videos when we have no budget authority anyway while the C-level execs bribe people?

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#374

Post by [deleted] »

VyseofArcadia wrote: post #61
criddell wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read a story yesterday[1] how the policy inside Google is to cc their legal department on any emails that you think could make the company look bad in any future legal proceedings. As I understand it, this shields the email from discovery. Did you have similar guidelines inside Microsoft? [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30760923

As I recall, the informal guidance I got as a lowly Software Engineer II was, "if legal gets involved, you've already screwed up."

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#375

Post by ComradePhil »

Everytime something like this comes up, westerners pretend that they are shocked, which I find hard to believe.

Western aid agencies and humanitarian agencies work closely with corporations and third world governments to get their way. Oftentimes, these bribes are not as direct as alleged here. Instead, the corporations donate to humanitarian agencies, which then allocate it as budget in the target country in exchange for business deals. Most of the aid disappears in "admin expenses" i.e. it goes to fill the pockets of people making these deals with these corporations.

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#376

Post by rapsey »

mschuster91 wrote: post #224
rapsey wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MS is insanely powerful pretty much in every country in the world. They know damn well how to get into the power structures.

They just had the advantage of having the only viable GUI-based OS on mass market computers. Linux has only begun to be usable on the desktop around 2005-ish, Mac always was expensive because you had to buy Macs.

Linux desktop GUI was irrelevant. To succeed in B2B you need a sales operation.

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#377

Post by wolverine876 »

hulitu wrote: post #315
wolverine876 wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you doing about it? It's a democracy - like open source software, if you don't like it, change it.

It is not a democracy. It is a corrupted democracy.

Every human being, organization, institution, software project, and democracy is corrupted to some degree. It's right their in the foundations of every philosophy and religion - it got us kicked out of Eden. If we do anything in life, it's with and through these human institutions, which are corrupt to some degree. It's up to us to make them less corrupt and to do things for humanity - there's nobody else who does anything; no alien cavalry is coming; it's just us.

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#378

Post by wolverine876 »

worik wrote: post #368
wolverine876 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If bribes are ok, why don't the criminals openly advertise their prices and what they are doing? Bribes do economic harm to people of the country, whether we call it 'culture' or something else.

> why don't the criminals openly advertise their prices and what they are doing? That is what politicians in the USA do, as I point ed out elsewhere I agree bribes are bad. But in my culture, with very low bribary and very high trust it is OK to put a solo mother out into the street with her children because she has been unable to pay inflated rents. For some countries, where bribery is accepted, that treatment of a…

> But in my culture, with very low bribary and very high trust it is OK to put a solo mother out into the street with her children because she has been unable to pay inflated rents.

> For some countries, where bribery is accepted, that treatment of a fellow human would not be. If those countries had economic power they might pass laws that sanctioned our landlords.

Where does the idea come from that countries with more bribery are more humanitarian? Usually, corruption extends to morality, IMHO, and brutal dictatorships tend to be the most corrupt.

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#379

Post by npteljes »

spaetzleesser wrote: post #64

I bet this is normal procedure for most companies that do business in countries where bribes are common. In Germany foreign bribes used to be even deductible.

This is my takeaway too. Want to do business at a country where this is normal? You either play this game, or do do business there with a serious disadvantage. In this regard, it's not that different from visiting places like this as a tourist. Where bribes are common with border guards, cops stopping you in the middle of nowhere, etc you either go there and pay the bribes, or don't visit at all.
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