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Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

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Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#191

Post by gls2ro »

basch wrote: post #161
mrsuprawsm wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

>Only America uses the (nonsensical) MM-DD-YYYY system. It makes more sense as MMDD-YYYY or (MM-DD)-YYYY. The Month-Day is a single thing, there are 365 of them in a year, in a roughly base 30 counting system. The year can often be left off when colloquially referring to a date (3/14 or 0314 for example.)

Just trying to reason here:

I think it makes more sense to have DD/MM as the day is the thing that changes more often and thus DDMM starts with the most important information first.

Also if I think I never encountered someone looking at their digital watch to know what Month is. But always people check phones/watches to know what day is. So why would these systems start with the less important information for the user?

Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#192

Post by hanche »

mikequinlan wrote: post #180
technobabbler wrote: post #30

You have to learn other cultures' norms if you want to live or work with them. It goes both ways. Europe and America do not only time differently, but phone numbers (1-800-123-1234 in the USA, 06 86 57 90 14 in France), dates (Jan 1 1911 would be 1/1/11 in the USA, 11-1-1 elsewhere), decimals (1,000.00 or 1.000,00), units (inches vs centimeters), reading order, daylight savings time, time zones (some countries don't…

> You have to learn other cultures' norms if you want to live or work with them. It goes both ways. You also need to recognize ambiguity and ask for confirmation when you see it. Even in the US people will get confused by 12AM/12PM; when you see either of those times you should double check to see what the person meant. On the other hand, the person setting the time should also have recognized the possible confusion…

Yes, but 12 midnight on Tuesday, what end of Tuesday is it at?

There is a reason insurance policies in the US tend to start at 12:01 am.

Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#193

Post by immnn »

pxue wrote: post #165
mrsuprawsm wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Wait until you hear what we do in Canada. We got European/UK roots but since US is next door, in real Canadian fashion we just simple do both. Arbitrarily. - driving distance and speed is measured in KM and KM/h - but height, home construction and day to day distance we use imperial. So I'm 5'9" not 175cm. and McDonald's is 100 feet from the intercection, but the next offramp (speedway) is in 3km - food is all in imp…

I am so sorry for this off-topic comment, but I really need to thank you for showing me - an European - why Trey Parker and Matt Stone created Terrance and Phillip xD

Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#195

Post by Koshkin »

seba_dos1 wrote: post #189
softwarebeware wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "where does the new day start?" I honestly am trying to understand the point being made. Isn't when the day starts obvious in either case? We know when the new _day_ starts because the date rolls over at that time. No one thinks the day starts at 12:00 in the 24-hour system, or 12:00pm / noon in the 12-hour system? > ... there's a single point where the new day starts ... Is this what you're saying: that in the 24…

> We know when the new _day_ starts because the date rolls over at that time. That's an additional reasoning you have to do in order to explain the non-intuitive fact that the new day starts when transitioning between hour 11 and 12. You can't come up with that conclusion based on clock system alone, you need to reach for the calendar. It makes you jump additional mental hoops, making it error prone (as evidenced by…

Well, some of them sound more convincing than the others. Intuitively, "12:30 AM" (whose meaning is unambiguous) seems to have more affinity to 12:00 than 11:30 PM does.

But since the midnight is the same distance from the noon, before (AM) or after (PM), in theory both should be reserved for midnights (the past one and the future one), and noon, too, should be both AM and PM - at 0 hours.

The only real solution for this mess is the one that everyone uses: just burn the meaning of 12:00 AM as midnight into your brain, and those who fail to do so are in for a trouble.

Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#196

Post by softwarebeware »

seba_dos1 wrote: post #189
softwarebeware wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "where does the new day start?" I honestly am trying to understand the point being made. Isn't when the day starts obvious in either case? We know when the new _day_ starts because the date rolls over at that time. No one thinks the day starts at 12:00 in the 24-hour system, or 12:00pm / noon in the 12-hour system? > ... there's a single point where the new day starts ... Is this what you're saying: that in the 24…

> We know when the new _day_ starts because the date rolls over at that time. That's an additional reasoning you have to do in order to explain the non-intuitive fact that the new day starts when transitioning between hour 11 and 12. You can't come up with that conclusion based on clock system alone, you need to reach for the calendar. It makes you jump additional mental hoops, making it error prone (as evidenced by…

I just don't see what you're seeing I guess. The clock starts at 00:00 and goes from 23:59 to 00:00 in the 24 hour system. In the 12 hour one, it always starts at 12:00 and goes from 11:59 to 12:00. That parts not confusing at all.

I do understand that having two different 12's in a day introduces an ambiguity about which one is the "real start" of the day just based on "12:00" alone.

Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#198

Post by kcplate »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #106
Koshkin wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if it was not meant as an insult?

I can't imagine how you are interpreting it as anything but an insult. Can you elaborate?

Thank you for removing your comment and flagging mine. Speaks volumes.

Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#199

Post by reph2097 »

immnn wrote: post #193
pxue wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait until you hear what we do in Canada. We got European/UK roots but since US is next door, in real Canadian fashion we just simple do both. Arbitrarily. - driving distance and speed is measured in KM and KM/h - but height, home construction and day to day distance we use imperial. So I'm 5'9" not 175cm. and McDonald's is 100 feet from the intercection, but the next offramp (speedway) is in 3km - food is all in imp…

I am so sorry for this off-topic comment, but I really need to thank you for showing me - an European - why Trey Parker and Matt Stone created Terrance and Phillip xD

Das ^^

Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#200

Post by micromacrofoot »

kcplate wrote: post #198
micromacrofoot wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't imagine how you are interpreting it as anything but an insult. Can you elaborate?

Thank you for removing your comment and flagging mine. Speaks volumes.

Sorry, I didn't do either thing... I'd prefer the comments stay personally, but I suppose it wasn't anything substantive (I don't even have the ability to flag?).
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