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Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

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Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#541

Post by cbar_tx »

greiskul wrote: post #335
ummwhat wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My pet theory is cities are malthusian. Contrary to popular belief, Malthus didn't predict runaway population growth. What he actually predicted (and was right for most of human history), is that any gains in productivity would be eaten up by population growth until the average wealth per person diluted down to it's previous level. So back to cities. Here's my pet theory. You build more apartments, or faster trains o…

There is also the Georgian explanation that rent seeking landlords will always increase rent to match any gains in production. Assuming that a landlord will always charge the maximum they can that market will sustain, any increase in production will mean an increase in what the market can pay for housing, and with time, what the landlord can extract from tenants. It neatly explains how cost of living correlates to jo…

if you want to live in my house, and within the safe and comfortable legal framework of tenancy in a property lease contact, then you have to pay competitive market rates to live there.

"Pay your fair share" to the "rent seekers" if it is a place to live that you are seeking...

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#542

Post by all2 »

mywittyname wrote: post #532
rdtwo wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that’s intentionally to keep out the poors. Nobody wants those kinds of building in their neighborhood because they house folks of lower social economic class and “bring down the neighborhood”

Ironic, seeing as yuppies buy into the poor neighborhoods because they are exciting and "have character."

This happened in East Nashville. It used to be the shady side of town. Then a bunch of artists went over there because that's all they could afford. Then the sycophants followed, property prices are now stupid expensive, and no one with low income can really afford to live there any more.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#543

Post by dragonwriter »

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #540
bduerst wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whitewashing UBI as a "win-win" is pretty bold considering I just showed how UBI disproportionately benefits property owners and discriminates against everyone else. There are ways to achieve all of the above that doesn't require destroying income-elastic priced markets. UBI is not a good solution.

The win-win-win was for "Removal/reduction in zoning", "Automate construction approval workflows", "Leverage eminent domain to aggregate land". UBI doesn't work well at all, like you stated, if there isn't a big increase in the supply of housing. For example, Seattle needs 10x more housing than it has today, and in 10 years it'll need 100x more housing than it has today. Ideally, all of these should be new luxury con…

> For example, Seattle needs 10x more housing than it has today, and in 10 years it'll need 100x more housing than it has today.

Seattle has about 740k people and about 370k housing units. 10 times the housing units would be enough for the entire state population at an average occupancy of 2 persons/unit. 100 times would be enough for roughly every US state bordering on or one state out from the Pacific Ocean.

Seattle pretty emphatically does not need that much housing.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#544

Post by all2 »

imgabe wrote: post #429
gotaquestion wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess they should take on more college debt to get a programming degree, right? Or in your world, the minimum wage is just for kids, is that it? Or it is just their fault that you got lucky where something you like is high paying, and something they like and are good at pays shit?

You don’t need a degree to learn programming. There are many, many other jobs besides programming that pay more than minimum wage with varying levels of requirements. People hanging drywall and digging ditches make more than minimum wage. You think everybody with a job paying more than minimum wage is doing something they love?

Welding, auto repair (though the barrier to entry is tools), HVAC, electrician, plumbing, etc.

College as a "necessary tool" to get work is seriously broken. I've considered hanging up my "programming" hat and becoming a fabricator (welder, machinist, etc). Not because of the money, but because I know 1) I could make a decent wage and 2) I would enjoy the work more.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#545

Post by dragonwriter »

adolph wrote: post #527
dragonwriter wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. The fundamental problem of means-tested welfare programs that UBI addresses remain: (1) Eliminates multiple sets of inefficient benefits/eligibility bureaucracy that duplicates functionality already performed as part of taxing authority. (2) Eliminates a counterproductive incentives associated with typical means-tested benefit eligibility, which has clawbacks at low income levels and rapid marginal rate (…

From a US point of view, when was the last time any entrenched bureaucracy was eliminated? As a baby step in redundancy reduction, is it realistic to think that UBI going to get rid of a program like WIC, against the full power of big ag brandishing starving baby pictures? Your second point acknowledges that taxing away UBI through progressive tax rates is a clawback. As I read it, your idea is that the increased mar…

> From a US point of view, when was the last time any entrenched bureaucracy was eliminated?

The most recent that springs to mind is the elimination of most of the conscription-related bureaucracy post-Vietnam.

> Your second point acknowledges that taxing away UBI through progressive tax rates is a clawback. As I read it, your idea is that the increased marginal taxation due to the clawback will occur at higher income levels than exist with current programs. Why not just change the existing tax rates instead of sending out cash and taxing it back?

A baseline tax credit plus adjustments to existing rates is widely recognized as one mechanism for implementing a UBI, but even the there is often a desire to have an estimated advance mechanism, to avoid a delay of potentially more than a year from when people enter the UBI-covered population and when they start benfiting from it.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#546

Post by HWR_14 »

jpcfl wrote: post #533
HWR_14 wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why the persons age should be relevant. But given the cost of college tuition, even instate public college tuition, means he should probably make at least that much.

The age is relevant because he is a dependent and does not need to pay for any living expenses. So, forcing an employer to pay him a "living wage" makes no sense. The rationale behind that law is invalid. You can invent new rationale, as you've done here, but it doesn't change the fact that his standard of living doesn't depend on his paycheck.

I'm not inventing a new rationale. I'm saying he deserves minimum wage because that's what we pay everyone. It's part of him being human. That the minimum wage has to be sufficient to allow some standard of living is also true but not relevant.

Other people think that the minimum wage should only apply to adults for some reason. Thats them changing rationales. We don't have a lower minimum wage for couples or higher minimum wage for parents. And that the 15-year-old isn't spending the money right now doesn't mean he won't spend it later.

But sure, If you really want I guess you could argue that we should t let teenagers work at all. After all, they don't need the money.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#547

Post by ashwagary »

314 wrote: post #496
ashwagary wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bad money (like inflationary fiat currency) creates the need to use other assets to preserve wealth, which creates bubbles in those assets. Bitcoin advocates say good money (Bitcoin) will return the value of all other assets to their utility value because the best passive store of value will be the money itself (which due to a fixed supply would be deflationary). In that world, people would rather sell assets they do…

This is hilarious.

Feel free to share if you have any criticism of this view.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#548

Post by adolph »

dragonwriter wrote: post #545
adolph wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a US point of view, when was the last time any entrenched bureaucracy was eliminated? As a baby step in redundancy reduction, is it realistic to think that UBI going to get rid of a program like WIC, against the full power of big ag brandishing starving baby pictures? Your second point acknowledges that taxing away UBI through progressive tax rates is a clawback. As I read it, your idea is that the increased mar…

> From a US point of view, when was the last time any entrenched bureaucracy was eliminated? The most recent that springs to mind is the elimination of most of the conscription-related bureaucracy post-Vietnam. > Your second point acknowledges that taxing away UBI through progressive tax rates is a clawback. As I read it, your idea is that the increased marginal taxation due to the clawback will occur at higher incom…

> elimination of most of the conscription-related bureaucracy

I was just thinking of that as an entrenched bureaucracy example but decided to focus things on an entitlement program. Despite having zero purpose for 49 years, Selective Service still manages to spend $26m/year [0].

> often a desire to have an estimated advance mechanism, to avoid a delay of potentially more than a year

The model for advance payments on an upcoming year's tax credits already exists [1]. I can see how this doesn't address downward change in income, but also don't see how that couldn't be added.

0. https://www.sss.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Annual-Report...

1. https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/advance-child-tax-cre...

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#549

Post by cwkoss »

njarboe wrote: post #252
bogwog wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UBI could allow the elimination of minimum wage entirely, along with a ton of other scattered welfare programs that have lots of administrative overhead and the typical middleman industries that leech off of government programs. It’s a no-brainer!

Most people working for minimum wage (and probably most people in general in the US) work pay check to pay check (like the Applebee's manager stated in the article). They max out their available credit so that the interest takes up all of the possible slack in their income. Under UBI how to you prevent people from now borrowing more money (spending it on a vacation, clothes, fancier car, etc.), paying all the UBI as…

I find this comment very classist and detached from reality.

Most minimum wage earners are not in poverty because they are taking too many vacations and buying too many luxury items: they are in poverty because rents are consuming 40-60% of their income, costs of essentials to live and commute to work are rapidly rising, and a single medical debt can wipe out all of their savings in an instant.

Avocado toast is not destroying the middle class - corporate greed is.

People aren't poor because they are lazy and stupid, as ultra-capitalist pundits would like you to believe to prevent you feeling empathy. America is systemically broken in a way that it is no longer 'the land of opportunity': poverty today is a trap that hardly anyone can escape by simply working hard and spending wisely.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#550

Post by cwkoss »

xwdv wrote: post #177
bo1024 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A universal basic income would have some advantages over a minimum wage. Minimum wage interferes with supply and demand in the labor market, which is why some economists dislike it. UBI moves the supply curve to a different place, but it allows those principles to function.

UBI won’t do anything I’m afraid, that experiment already failed during the pandemic and now we have massive inflation across all assets.

The economic impact payments totaled $3200 over the whole year. Is there anywhere in America where that is enough to live on?

Calling it a failed experiment is ridiculous - it was infrequent and an order of magnitude too small.

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