Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout • Hacker News Board

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#531

Post by MisterBastahrd » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 3:04 PM UTC

IMTDb wrote: post #240

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An hour? Why is it acceptable or reasonable to spend 2 hours of your unpaid time wasted on commuting?

Because the only way to guarantee that people have less than an hour of commute to their job is to create extremely dense population center which means extremely small living spaces which are almost universally hated. And most jobs cannot be done remotely, so to guarantee that each individual has space, he must accept to be some distance ways from the hub where people concentrate to perform their daily tasks. Think o…

Most people who are commuting for jobs in the service industry in the US likely live within 15 minutes of their job, though. Most of them have cars by necessity, and they don't have that kind of money to blow on fuel.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#532

Post by mywittyname » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 3:06 PM UTC

rdtwo wrote: post #521

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to go the Japanese liberal zoning route, simply redefine a one bedroom apartment as a 2.5 tatami sized micro dwelling without central heating and maybe a shared bathroom (or maybe no shower in building at all). Western standards on viable housing are a bit more generous than other countries.

I think that’s intentionally to keep out the poors. Nobody wants those kinds of building in their neighborhood because they house folks of lower social economic class and “bring down the neighborhood”

Ironic, seeing as yuppies buy into the poor neighborhoods because they are exciting and "have character."

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#533

Post by jpcfl » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 3:42 PM UTC

HWR_14 wrote: post #498

jpcfl wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Otherwise it sounds like you don't think anyone should be able to live anywhere reasonable without roommates? I think your confusing "should be able to" with "shall be able to, enforceable by law". I don't expect that a 15 year old working his first job as a fry cook at an Arby's should be compensated enough that he can afford to live on his own. In fact, that could be dangerously disincentivizing his hard work towa…

I don't see why the persons age should be relevant. But given the cost of college tuition, even instate public college tuition, means he should probably make at least that much.

The age is relevant because he is a dependent and does not need to pay for any living expenses.

So, forcing an employer to pay him a "living wage" makes no sense. The rationale behind that law is invalid. You can invent new rationale, as you've done here, but it doesn't change the fact that his standard of living doesn't depend on his paycheck.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#534

Post by scarface74 » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 3:48 PM UTC

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #481

scarface74 wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you expect every private business to do it?

No? I expect the government to do something that isn't a yearly tax credit.

Simple, the government can send money to recipients every month instead of yearly.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#535

Post by bduerst » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 3:49 PM UTC

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #374

bduerst wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are goods and services with income-elastic pricing, like housing. UBI indirectly and unfairly benefits only the people who control those goods and services. If everyone made $1000 more per month, housing prices would raise up to that amount for everyone. This means the majority of the UBI raise would go into just the landlords pockets. This is why many welfare programs are expense- or need-dependent, because it…

That said, the UBI inflation would incentivize construction. But this requires zoning changes, approvals, and consecutive land reclamation anyways. Might as well start with: - Removal/reduction in zoning - Automate construction approval workflows - Leverage eminent domain to aggregate land, and sell for profit to the builders. Its just a win-win-win (given the views / property values would be reduced regardless witho…

Whitewashing UBI as a "win-win" is pretty bold considering I just showed how UBI disproportionately benefits property owners and discriminates against everyone else.

There are ways to achieve all of the above that doesn't require destroying income-elastic priced markets. UBI is not a good solution.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#536

Post by darth_avocado » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 4:01 PM UTC

22c wrote: post #72

juancb wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those with exploitative mindsets have learned over time that it's easier to take advantage of those who they see as weak and desperate.

See also: employees on a sponsored work visa

You can’t get sponsored work visa for applebees unless you’re doing it illegally.

You either get it for high skill industries or farm labor, no other employment.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#537

Post by xwdv » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 4:19 PM UTC

account42 wrote: post #508

xwdv wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UBI won’t do anything I’m afraid, that experiment already failed during the pandemic and now we have massive inflation across all assets.

How much funds were paid out to individuals aka UBI and how much was spent to stimulate business? How much of those funds paid out to individuals were funded via additional progressive income/wealth taxes rather than just printed?

COVID checks + increased unemployment + no rent payments for millions is basically as close to UBI as we will get. It didn’t work well.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#538

Post by cbar_tx » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 4:24 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #3

I wonder what the USA would look like if minimum wage was defined as; two people being able to afford a 1 bedroom apartment within a 1 hour drive without traffic. The static (both in the nominal and inflation adjusted sense) for minimum wage doesn't make sense imo. Minimum wage should be tied to some level of living (not necessarily a great living, but something ) This guy smh

you could bypass all the bull and get a far better outcome by simply tying the salary of every member of Congress to the median income. One day people will realize how important it is to hold their representatives accountable and hopefully make it happen.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#539

Post by wernercd » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 4:27 PM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #375

wernercd wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That idea ("1 bed room within 1 hour") is simplistic when you consider places like CA that have NIMBY brigades and huge amounts of red-tape making housing needlessly limited driving up prices with bad leadership. Hard to feel super supportive of massive changes to min-wage for places that literally make affordable housing impossible. Growing population + massive regulation + NIMBY = you're gonna have a bad time. Incr…

California is subsidized by the people living in their cars. Wage adjustment like that will drive some of the market effects that are suppressed by the inertia that unchanging property taxes creates. Grandma would move out of her 4 bedroom home that costs $300/yr in taxes if she had to pay the gardener $40/hr. Those cost increase tax would reduce property cost. In states where property tax adjusts you can see that dy…

"Grandma would move out"

So gentrification? Get rid of the "undesirables" instead of building more housing...

The problem isn't "grandma" (Or, I think that problem is vastly smaller than lack of new building/investment due to hostile regulations). The problem is anti-grow regulations that block what can be built (IE: must match look/feel, can't build high rises, etc)... and anti-grow regulations that demand massive investment in what can be built (IE: requiring water sprinklers in new homes, solar, etc) making new options grossly over-priced.

Cars aren't more expensive just because of inflation... they are more and more expensive due to regulations upon regulations such as air bags, abs, etc. Some of which is good... but a lot of which is debatable or outright wasteful. Same for housing.

Making grandma move out won't create the massive amount of new housing required for some areas. Those areas need new, affordable housing to be invested in - not getting rid of "undesirables" to raise taxes.

"feature high taxes and cheap property"

It's not cheap if you're taxed to death to stay there. Artificially low prices due to artificially high taxes aren't a solution any more than over regulation is.

And the idea of higher wages won't solve the issue that'll end up being inflation adjusted higher prices to pay higher taxes to pay for higher prices to pay for higher taxes to...

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#540

Post by yazaddaruvala » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 4:29 PM UTC

bduerst wrote: post #535

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That said, the UBI inflation would incentivize construction. But this requires zoning changes, approvals, and consecutive land reclamation anyways. Might as well start with: - Removal/reduction in zoning - Automate construction approval workflows - Leverage eminent domain to aggregate land, and sell for profit to the builders. Its just a win-win-win (given the views / property values would be reduced regardless witho…

Whitewashing UBI as a "win-win" is pretty bold considering I just showed how UBI disproportionately benefits property owners and discriminates against everyone else. There are ways to achieve all of the above that doesn't require destroying income-elastic priced markets. UBI is not a good solution.

The win-win-win was for "Removal/reduction in zoning", "Automate construction approval workflows", "Leverage eminent domain to aggregate land".

UBI doesn't work well at all, like you stated, if there isn't a big increase in the supply of housing. For example, Seattle needs 10x more housing than it has today, and in 10 years it'll need 100x more housing than it has today. Ideally, all of these should be new luxury condo buildings, with 1000-3000 sqft condos, driving prices of all housing down by 10x. I would really like to see the city make this their only priority.