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‘I’m Old, Not an Idiot.’ One Man’s Protest Gets Attention of Spanish Banks

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111–120 of 164 posts

Re: ‘I’m Old, Not an Idiot.’ One Man’s Protest Gets Attention of Spanish Banks

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the mortgage giver already sends those to the tax authority. How else do you think they have all your mortgage data pre-filled when you file your taxes ?

I wish my tax authority did that... on any of my tax returns.

It's how it is done in Scandinavia and most of Europe. I only have to add a few numbers because I have some small investments offshore, otherwise everything including investments in mutual funds is already itemized.

Re: ‘I’m Old, Not an Idiot.’ One Man’s Protest Gets Attention of Spanish Banks

#112
post #8

The OECD published the results of a massive survey of member countries some years ago, titled "Skills Matter" ( https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/education/skills-matter_978926... ). The researchers defined 4 levels of technology proficiency, based on the types of tasks users can complete successfully. There was a very good summary published here ( https://www.nngroup.com/articles/computer-skill-levels/ ) and excerpted b…

Something I observe with people new to computing at an old age: They try to reduce any task to "below level 1", aiming at writing this down as a sequence of atomic steps of a recipe. There is no confidence in being able to remember how a task is to be achieved at any future point. There is also no confidence and therefor no interest in acquiring the basic grammar of user interfaces. (E.g., double-clicking is not link…

Unpredictability and inconsistency of behavior are so bad for people in that group (and, really, everyone, they just can't work past it like a fraction of more talented computer-users can). If opening something or performing an action ever doesn't do the thing it usually does—say, it presents some kind of modal or notice instead, as many programs do after updates or for other reasons—it'll completely derail them.

Re: ‘I’m Old, Not an Idiot.’ One Man’s Protest Gets Attention of Spanish Banks

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. There are many things computers are amazing at doing (that's why I find them fascinating and enjoy working on them from time to time)—but human empathy isn't one of them.

Computers didn't choose to close down a branch or limit its hours, humans did.

But the computers tricked the humans into thinking "you can just do it all online".

My favorite example of this being restaurants that, when you ask for a menu, give you a QR code (with no explanation of course).

Re: ‘I’m Old, Not an Idiot.’ One Man’s Protest Gets Attention of Spanish Banks

#114
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doing that by email is a real dick move. They should send a letter with the last bill. And do it opt in of course. Old people are exactly the type of people that would carefully study letters that come in the post. Unlike people my age that would bin anything that comes with the bill thinking it's probably just commercial crap. But of course this is precisely the reason they do it by email. Dark pattern..

> And do it opt in of course. In my case, ISP charges you extra if you decide to keep the paper bills instead going for "eco bill" pdf file send by an email; same goes if you decide to opt-out from company selling your number elsewhere. Last time while getting new contract, 3 different people at local company's office tried to convince me that I can "win some fantastic rewards" if I decide to let them do with my numb…

It's probably still cheaper to pay that small extra fee. I am usually an organized person but in the last 4-5 years I still forgot to download my credit card bill 4 times, which caused a 30$ late fee every time.

Re: ‘I’m Old, Not an Idiot.’ One Man’s Protest Gets Attention of Spanish Banks

#116
post #3

I've had to assist an elderly neighbour after her phone company cut off her phone service. Why? The way she had paid for it for the preceding 40 years was she would get the paper bill in mail, and then go down to the post office and organise payment using the details in that paper bill. They switched her over to paperless billing with an email that they've done so but you can opt out. She either did not understand th…

> So stuff like this it feels like they should just eat the cost of 12 letters per year until the remaining people availing of it age out.

I worked in a related field and the cost of this is really not the postage. Your billing system needs to support sending paper bills, everywhere you have customer communication you'll need to add the paper way, the format is different, you still need a way for your billing system to actually send those letters, you accounting needs to check for it etc etc. Also, every time you discuss a change in your systems, you need to consider the edge case of these 12 customers.

The letters themselves are cheap, supporting paper in every system you have is the real cost. I agree that they should have handled this better, no questions asked, but it's not like we're just talking about pennies in postage.

Re: ‘I’m Old, Not an Idiot.’ One Man’s Protest Gets Attention of Spanish Banks

#117
post #3

I've had to assist an elderly neighbour after her phone company cut off her phone service. Why? The way she had paid for it for the preceding 40 years was she would get the paper bill in mail, and then go down to the post office and organise payment using the details in that paper bill. They switched her over to paperless billing with an email that they've done so but you can opt out. She either did not understand th…

My bank (Bank of America) has this "dark pattern" where they try to switch you to paperless statements and billing every time you log into their website. Each time you log in you get a popup about paperless billing. If you click the "default" big button, you've opted in to it. You have to look for a little tiny text link to keep getting paper bills. I'm only 59, but without my paper bills, I've missed a few deadlines…

> I'm only 59, but without my paper bills, I've missed a few deadlines for credit card.

I'm 29 and the same thing also happened to me. It's also so annoying that every time you have to log in into their website to download the bill... They could at least email it to you.

Re: ‘I’m Old, Not an Idiot.’ One Man’s Protest Gets Attention of Spanish Banks

#118
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As if the cost for those few bills make a dent in a bank's operating costs. The government invents money by the billions die these guys. The least they can do is provide some service.

This is very unlogical: Gov creates money not the banks. They do have operational costs. And it is not one person who needs to accept checks, every branch has to support this. I have not been to a bank for the last 10 years. They are obsolete. And those buildings are expensive and they have to be able to compete with online banks. It's not even an option for them to just keep those buildings.

Of course banks create money. You don't think that they hold enough money to pay all their creditors at once do you? Never heard of fractional reserve banking? See https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/fractionalreservebankin...

Re: ‘I’m Old, Not an Idiot.’ One Man’s Protest Gets Attention of Spanish Banks

#119
I can see issues even now as a long-time computer user that older people or even younger than me (52) maybe have problems figuring out. Trends like popup menus that suddenly obscures what you were just looking at, "helpful" auto suggest that you may click by mistake, font size, fine motor control, mild dementia, just nervous around a complex expensive device.

Computers or at least services should be intuitive you a noob or an expert should not need to decipher what to do next.

Re: ‘I’m Old, Not an Idiot.’ One Man’s Protest Gets Attention of Spanish Banks

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was my experience for years when I worked in tech support. It seemed like every computer task was just a list of steps. They had to ask "do I left-click, or right-click" on every step, because they had developed no "theory" for what a left-click is, and why you'd use it vs. a right-click. It seemed like if they ever missed a step, or a step required them to deviate from their plan, they were entirely lost. I hav…

> I also want to be clear: I'm not mocking anyone for lack of knowledge here. One of the persons in my sample is my father. He had an introduction to what must have been OS/2 Warp and even had a computer in the office, but never used it (there was still a secretary). In his retirement, he bought a book binder course on how to use an early version of Windows, but hadn't a computer to try it on his own, so this was yet…

> Also, the "magical" appearance and disappearance of these items doesn't help the ability to form a stable mental model.

I've observed that any kind of "mode" that isn't extremely clear, visually is terrible for these sorts of folks (and, as with most things that give them trouble, are really terrible for everyone, we're just better at working past it than they are). Tabs that aren't extremely visually clear will leave these users "stuck" on the wrong one without realizing there even are tabs; filters or searches that don't make it super clear that you're "in" a filter or search will make them wonder where the hell all their stuff went, that kind of thing.

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