Live data from Hacker News

Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

www2.ljworld.com

371–380 of 582 posts

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#371
post #361
post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off the top of my head: - Tie tax rates/benefits/penalties to the discrepancy between CEO/C-suite pay and average/lowest-paid employee pay - Tax benefits to companies who provide enriching programs for employees (like some universities that offer tuition benefits and programs to help you get mortgages, etc) - Tax penalties for not giving COL raises each year Etc.

>- Tie tax rates/benefits/penalties to the discrepancy between CEO/C-suite pay and average/lowest-paid employee pay All that's going to do is cause companies to jettison their lowest paying employees. For instance, Apple would outsource janitors to another company (i'm pretty sure they already do that) and spin out apple stores/genius to another company. That way, the only people you have left are tim cook and other…

That's the problem with trying to do ANYTHING in our current system: It's going to turn into a circus of definition abuse and loopholes. Not to mention the IRS would be sued to high heaven and this shit would take years to implement, if it were allowed at all.

Our system is completely fucked.

But we're all stopping shy of having THAT conversation, so to address some points:

> All that's going to do is cause companies to jettison their lowest paying employees. For instance, Apple would outsource janitors to another company (i'm pretty sure they already do that) and spin out apple stores/genius to another company. That way, the only people you have left are tim cook and other highly paid engineers/designers making 6 figures. Yay we fixed the pay gap!

True, but this would still overall be beneficial because the CEOs of those janitorial companies are now paid more in line with the janitors, which means that the working conditions are more likely to improve.

> Sound like that would push employers into moving more of their compensation to year-end bonuses, which can be arbitrarily raised/lowered without being subject to "COL raises". In other words, "good news, you have received a COL raise of 5% this year! bad news, your year end bonus has dropped by 5%"

Probably, but how many employees in America get year end bonuses? Because I've gotten like...2 and I've worked a decent range of jobs. They're way less common than you think. Yes, this would probably mean the people at the top would start taking from the middle instead of the bottom to retain their profit. It's not ideal, but I'd rather someone be stuck renting longer/have to cut their grocery bill (middle class) than end up homeless (lower class).

You're right about the enrichment programs, though, now that I think about it. There's a reason I mostly saw that in universities, I'd imagine.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#372
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why?

Why would you hire a teenager for a relatively large amount of money?

I hire alot of people, I pay them based on the value of what they produce.

One guy I work with has 8 children. Another is married to a partner in a law firm and lives in a home likely worth >$5M. I don’t pay them any different.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#373
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Start off by charging them extra in taxes to cover any welfare their full-time employees qualify for. Isn't this equivalent to raising the minimum wage? I'm not sure what's the point of policies like this other for the cathartic effect/grandstanding.

Not only that, but it incentivizes hiring discrimination based on family status. Are you going to hire the 19 year-old college kid or the 24 year-old single mother of 2? Guess who's more likely to qualify for AFDC?

It’s a bounty for firing any employee who falls on hard times.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not understand what you are trying to convey through either of these points. Would you mind clarifying?

There are goods and services with income-elastic pricing, like housing. UBI indirectly and unfairly benefits only the people who control those goods and services. If everyone made $1000 more per month, housing prices would raise up to that amount for everyone. This means the majority of the UBI raise would go into just the landlords pockets. This is why many welfare programs are expense- or need-dependent, because it…

That said, the UBI inflation would incentivize construction. But this requires zoning changes, approvals, and consecutive land reclamation anyways.

Might as well start with:

- Removal/reduction in zoning

- Automate construction approval workflows

- Leverage eminent domain to aggregate land, and sell for profit to the builders.

Its just a win-win-win (given the views / property values would be reduced regardless without extra housing causing SF/LA/Seattle levels of homeless people):

- Homeowners get paid, by the city / local gov, at market rate or slightly above market rate.

- The city / local government has a new profit stream, to be used for more housing / services / reduced taxes. They would aggregate land, re-zone it, get approvals completed, and sell the whole package to the highest bidding developers.

- Developers reduce costs to aggregate land and due to interest payments while waiting for all the land + approvals.

- City gets to better plan the hosing market, i.e. superblocks, transit, etc.

- City dwellers get more access to housing (i.e. cheaper housing), and possibly reduced taxes. Also reduced crime and homelessness because the city is affordable for everyone.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#375

I wonder what the USA would look like if minimum wage was defined as; two people being able to afford a 1 bedroom apartment within a 1 hour drive without traffic. The static (both in the nominal and inflation adjusted sense) for minimum wage doesn't make sense imo. Minimum wage should be tied to some level of living (not necessarily a great living, but something ) This guy smh

That idea ("1 bed room within 1 hour") is simplistic when you consider places like CA that have NIMBY brigades and huge amounts of red-tape making housing needlessly limited driving up prices with bad leadership. Hard to feel super supportive of massive changes to min-wage for places that literally make affordable housing impossible. Growing population + massive regulation + NIMBY = you're gonna have a bad time. Incr…

California is subsidized by the people living in their cars.

Wage adjustment like that will drive some of the market effects that are suppressed by the inertia that unchanging property taxes creates. Grandma would move out of her 4 bedroom home that costs $300/yr in taxes if she had to pay the gardener $40/hr.

Those cost increase tax would reduce property cost. In states where property tax adjusts you can see that dynamic.

NYC metro area is cheap compared to California, and the depressed upstate cities feature high taxes and incredibly cheap property.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#376
post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it even need to be studied that heavily? What is India and China trying to do? They have massive billion people populations that are poor. Lift them into a lower middle class, voila, you have unmatched consuming class. We’re going to lose this fight to these countries because our country cannot for a second think outside of squeezing the living hell out of a stagnantly growing 350 million person population. That…

>Does it even need to be studied that heavily? What is India and China trying to do? And how did they achieve it? By paying workers luxurious wages? The whole reason they're successful was that they industrialized and offered labor cheaper than the west, and the west outsourced labor to them. "Henry Ford, capitalist extraordinaire, famously paid his workers $5 a day, double the average automaker's wage at the time" h…

Again, it’s how you see it. They brought jobs at mass scale there. We on the other hand, ship jobs out at mass scale, AND squeeze the people that are here. You can’t get away with both.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word “afford” is doing a lot of work there. Is paying 40% of gross income for rent “too much”? 35%? 30%? What if utilities were included vs not? 10th percentile rent? 25th percentile?

Usually 36-40% is the standard. Around $1000 assuming $15 minimum wage and full time employment. There’s already a standard for this with things like Section 8 vouchers. It’s hilarious how many HN commenters think these are intractable, impossible problems.

You realize that’s got the direction wrong? “Given the affordability of housing somewhere within a pretty huge circle, what must the local minimum wage be?”

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#378
Everyone in this thread ahould be required to read Das Kapital, Poverty and Progress, and Economic Possibilities for our Grandchildren before commenting.

Your radical ideas about society, individualism, and economics have already occurred to others. Arm yourself.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree they may need to cut their prices. How would this email have been received if it had said: We are facing headwinds and may need to cut prices To stay viable this means we need to cut costs One way to do this is offer lower starting wages. Though this wasn't viable in the recent past, it may be possible now. That's because our pool of workers are feeling pinched and may need to pick up extra jobs I understand…

The core line of logic "We can pay our workers less, because our workers are more desperate" never gets any better. It's one thing to say they're going to pay less because the business isn't viable at these levels of pay, but extending that to "so we're going to focus on who we can exploit" is where it crosses the line. Becuase if the reason you're cutting wages is that you can't afford them... well, let's start with…

[deleted]

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds all well and good but I live in a desirable central coast city and thanks to SB9 I can now build 4 extra res units on my property. You are mistaken if you think anyone is going to spend that effort and charge anything less than current market ... maybe more, new houses are expensive. What we need is subsidized housing close to mass transit, single payer medicine, progressive tax reform and subsidized chil…

We do not need subsidized housing further driving up prices. We need fewer people in the market and that means less availability of large loans and taxes on commercial real estate loans. You can't have so many people competing to buy real estate to rent to you and pushing out people who want to buy. And people need to be comfortable when a region doesn't want to grow, force them to curtail their commercial zoning, an…

So you’re pro-homeowner and anti-tenant?
Post reply on HN