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Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

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Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#281

Post by google234123 »

colechristensen wrote: post #255
nostrademons wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inflation, probably followed by corruption. Minimum wage would rise to the point where a person could afford a 1BR apartment within a 1 hour drive without traffic. Then the rents of those 1BR apartments would rise to capture that new minimum wage. Then minimum wage would rise to afford the new rent, and so on. Eventually someone's going to say "Hey, I own an apartment block downtown, I'm supposed to rent it out to th…

Zoning. You link the "zones which employ people" and "zones which house people" to balance so you don't have significantly more jobs than homes. Next you zone for type of housing, where you only allow a certain percentage of the most profitable 1BR apartments to be built, and require those to be above certain size thresholds so that a variety of life situations can actually live in your city. You don't need to "incen…

Ok, in California for example, before this works, you need to undo most of the anti-building laws (these are mostly environmental related btw - not sure if you would be happy with removing them), corrupt permitting boards, and also do some reform on the lawsuit system (since everyone sues you when you start building). Also there are tons of accessibility related laws that make building more expensive - e.g. you must have an elevator on any complex with 3+ apartments. It's probably illegal to build cheap apartments with no AC like we used to.

If you dont change any of this, a new "affordable 1br apartment will probably cost 700K.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#282

Post by ummwhat »

nostrademons wrote: post #208
endisneigh wrote: post #3

I wonder what the USA would look like if minimum wage was defined as; two people being able to afford a 1 bedroom apartment within a 1 hour drive without traffic. The static (both in the nominal and inflation adjusted sense) for minimum wage doesn't make sense imo. Minimum wage should be tied to some level of living (not necessarily a great living, but something ) This guy smh

Inflation, probably followed by corruption. Minimum wage would rise to the point where a person could afford a 1BR apartment within a 1 hour drive without traffic. Then the rents of those 1BR apartments would rise to capture that new minimum wage. Then minimum wage would rise to afford the new rent, and so on. Eventually someone's going to say "Hey, I own an apartment block downtown, I'm supposed to rent it out to th…

My pet theory is cities are malthusian. Contrary to popular belief, Malthus didn't predict runaway population growth. What he actually predicted (and was right for most of human history), is that any gains in productivity would be eaten up by population growth until the average wealth per person diluted down to it's previous level. So back to cities. Here's my pet theory. You build more apartments, or faster trains or whatever to expand the availability and affordability of 1 be apartments within a 1 hour commute, and it will work for a while, but within a few years people chasing opportunity will have moved to the city until the rents and costs of living eventually return to previous levels. This dynamic works because unlike pre industrial malthusian times, cities do not rely on birthrates for population growth.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#283

Post by lostphilosopher »

glitchc wrote: post #220
bo1024 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A universal basic income would have some advantages over a minimum wage. Minimum wage interferes with supply and demand in the labor market, which is why some economists dislike it. UBI moves the supply curve to a different place, but it allows those principles to function.

1) UBI is not UBI unless everyone gets it. 2) Any income surplus generated by UBI is rapidly consumed by middle people and rent-seekers. That’s how we get inflation.

Does anyone have a good explanation (or resource) for why this wouldn’t happen?

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#284

Post by gotaquestion »

imgabe wrote: post #149
endisneigh wrote: post #3

I wonder what the USA would look like if minimum wage was defined as; two people being able to afford a 1 bedroom apartment within a 1 hour drive without traffic. The static (both in the nominal and inflation adjusted sense) for minimum wage doesn't make sense imo. Minimum wage should be tied to some level of living (not necessarily a great living, but something ) This guy smh

Mass confusion. Every location has to have a custom minimum wage based on the local real estate market? How are you going to enforce that? How about people figure out how much money they need to afford the lifestyle they want and then get a job that pays that much?

> How about people figure out how much money they need to afford the lifestyle they want and then get a job that pays that much?

What if your lifestyle consists of:

1. pay off student loans in 10 years

2. be able to take transit to work (can't afford a car)

3. save at least 5% of take home pay to get a used car

4. eat ramen and salad

5. maybe see a movie once a month, or go to a bar twice a month

6. internet & cell phone

7. try not to starve or get evicted

8. avoid more than 2 roommates

9. have Obamacare catastrophe-ony health insurance (bare minimum)

And the only job you can get doesn't even pay for that?

That's pretty much the lifestyle of every 30 something I know who is struggling. That's also why this and student loan debt is being called a crisis, because it is. It's not like people honestly want a lifestyle that involves a McClaren and weekly trips to Bali.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#285

Post by gruez »

bee_rider wrote: post #221
quantum_magpie wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>two people being able to afford a 1 bedroom apartment within a 1 hour drive without traffic. My immediate reaction to this statement was.. it's insane? In my opinion it should read 'a single person able to afford a 1 bedroom apartment within an hour of public transport commute.' Otherwise it sounds like you don't think anyone should be able to live anywhere reasonable without roommates?

Also, you'd think the people with 'traditional values' or whatever would be really excited if a single worker could support a couple.

The reason why single earner households can't afford a house on a single earner wage isn't because houses got 2x harder to build, or a single earner got half as productive. It's because there's only so many houses (land) available, and therefore the people with money (mostly 2 earner households) bid up the price until the people who can afford it equal the number of houses available. So yes, those people "with 'traditional values' or whatever" could certainly get that implemented, but that'll involve banning women from the workplace (or similar legislation to prevent 2 earner households from out-bidding 1 earner households).

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#286

Post by sangnoir »

ars wrote: post #251
Bermion wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why shouldn't someone working as a fry cook be able to live on his salary? It's not dangerous to have a system where not everyone needs a university degree to earn a living.

Think about that. Let's take your world, the fry cook can live on his salary. Now the person with a University degree can command a much higher wage since his skill is in great demand. He's got more money, so he can afford more expensive stuff, increasing demand, which increases prices, and now your fry cook can no longer live on his salary. Do you want to respond by raising wages again? You're in a never ending loop…

> Now the person with a University degree can command a much higher wage since his skill is in great demand.

This does not necessarily follow from the previous statement, and may even be completely unrelated.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#287

Post by missedthecue »

cbozeman wrote: post #267
nostrademons wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inflation, probably followed by corruption. Minimum wage would rise to the point where a person could afford a 1BR apartment within a 1 hour drive without traffic. Then the rents of those 1BR apartments would rise to capture that new minimum wage. Then minimum wage would rise to afford the new rent, and so on. Eventually someone's going to say "Hey, I own an apartment block downtown, I'm supposed to rent it out to th…

That's a very long way of saying, "We don't have enough housing in America."

trust me, price controls on labor will surely fix the housing shortage!

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#288

Post by MattGaiser »

gruez wrote: post #73
jasonhansel wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will also force employees to look for higher-paying jobs, potentially causing them to leave if Applebees doesn't raise its pay. Normally inflation is associated with higher wages, not lower ones.

>It will also force employees to look for higher-paying jobs ...implying they weren't already doing so? I'm not sure about you, but I don't think applebees is the type of place you stick around for "the good work culture" or whatever.

Plenty of people do not search for jobs unless under duress.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#289

Post by ars »

sangnoir wrote: post #286
ars wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think about that. Let's take your world, the fry cook can live on his salary. Now the person with a University degree can command a much higher wage since his skill is in great demand. He's got more money, so he can afford more expensive stuff, increasing demand, which increases prices, and now your fry cook can no longer live on his salary. Do you want to respond by raising wages again? You're in a never ending loop…

> Now the person with a University degree can command a much higher wage since his skill is in great demand. This does not necessarily follow from the previous statement, and may even be completely unrelated.

It's pretty much automatic. If there's more demand than supply, then companies will offer more money to hire this person with a university degree.

The only way you keep this person's wage down is increase supply - have lots of people with university degrees. But that's not the real world, in the real world most people are not able to get a degree.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#290

Post by thghtihadanacct »

colechristensen wrote: post #255
nostrademons wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inflation, probably followed by corruption. Minimum wage would rise to the point where a person could afford a 1BR apartment within a 1 hour drive without traffic. Then the rents of those 1BR apartments would rise to capture that new minimum wage. Then minimum wage would rise to afford the new rent, and so on. Eventually someone's going to say "Hey, I own an apartment block downtown, I'm supposed to rent it out to th…

Zoning. You link the "zones which employ people" and "zones which house people" to balance so you don't have significantly more jobs than homes. Next you zone for type of housing, where you only allow a certain percentage of the most profitable 1BR apartments to be built, and require those to be above certain size thresholds so that a variety of life situations can actually live in your city. You don't need to "incen…

That sounds all well and good but I live in a desirable central coast city and thanks to SB9 I can now build 4 extra res units on my property. You are mistaken if you think anyone is going to spend that effort and charge anything less than current market ... maybe more, new houses are expensive. What we need is subsidized housing close to mass transit, single payer medicine, progressive tax reform and subsidized child care. Changing laws to allow the wealthy land owners to build more for-profit residences will help only land owners.
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