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Launch HN: Charge Robotics (YC S21) - Robots that build solar farms

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Re: Launch HN: Charge Robotics (YC S21) - Robots that build solar farms

#31

Post by hutzlibu »

mrraj wrote: post #27

Interesting idea - having worked in the back office of a solar construction company for a number of years I can see a few challenges. Install labor is relatively cheap but more importantly flexible - relative to the cost of the project install is low double digits %. If a job isn't running smoothly you cut your temps and move your main crew over to another site or send them home if they're local. I would wonder how t…

"Also keep in mind Central CA in summer is not Massachusetts in November, weather makes all this 10x worse"

Important to keep in mind, but I would suspect(and hope), most solar farms will be installed, where it is sunny and dry.

Re: Launch HN: Charge Robotics (YC S21) - Robots that build solar farms

#32

Post by dmead »

Should we do this? My understanding is that solar installation is the next (semi?) skilled labor that could potentially be careers for many people.

It doesn't seem to be the most socially stable thing to cut out humans from this job market before it really booms.

Re: Launch HN: Charge Robotics (YC S21) - Robots that build solar farms

#33

Post by banks_h »

mrraj wrote: post #27

Interesting idea - having worked in the back office of a solar construction company for a number of years I can see a few challenges. Install labor is relatively cheap but more importantly flexible - relative to the cost of the project install is low double digits %. If a job isn't running smoothly you cut your temps and move your main crew over to another site or send them home if they're local. I would wonder how t…

Definitely, we've experienced workers being sent home for a number of reasons (too cold, too windy, too rainy, materials didn't show up as scheduled). Fortunately with an autonomous system there's no logistical overhead, if some external factor prevents us from working then we aren't stuck covering hundreds of per diems and sending everyone home. Yes, we'll have some equipment depreciation as it's not working, but it's at a similar rate to the rented or depreciating trucks/skid steers/telehandlers on existing sites when no one's working them.

Totally hear you on the CA vs MA weather swings (I've lived in both!). We actually see this as a key advantage for us. Sites we've visited in central CA have significant water distribution logistics, frequent shade breaks, and still have high heat exhaustion rates. Sites we've visited in northern climates report about 50% speed reduction in work due to gloves/cold, and will send workers home if the temperatures drop far enough. Our robots can handle both climates without an impact on installation rates (or any of the associated health risks for workers!).

Re: Launch HN: Charge Robotics (YC S21) - Robots that build solar farms

#34

Post by mrraj »

hutzlibu wrote: post #31
mrraj wrote: post #27

Interesting idea - having worked in the back office of a solar construction company for a number of years I can see a few challenges. Install labor is relatively cheap but more importantly flexible - relative to the cost of the project install is low double digits %. If a job isn't running smoothly you cut your temps and move your main crew over to another site or send them home if they're local. I would wonder how t…

"Also keep in mind Central CA in summer is not Massachusetts in November, weather makes all this 10x worse" Important to keep in mind, but I would suspect(and hope), most solar farms will be installed, where it is sunny and dry.

Mostly this is correct. Few exceptions -

Weather patterns on East coast can be unpredictable, much more so than central valley CA. torrential rain = mud leading to bogged down equipment, this can be the difference between a profitable job and unmitigated disaster for an installer.

Second, construction cycles in utility solar can be a bit wonky because of ITC tax credits, lots of turnkey providers looking to have construction starts in q4.

Re: Launch HN: Charge Robotics (YC S21) - Robots that build solar farms

#36

Post by justicz »

dmead wrote: post #32

Should we do this? My understanding is that solar installation is the next (semi?) skilled labor that could potentially be careers for many people. It doesn't seem to be the most socially stable thing to cut out humans from this job market before it really booms.

It's a good question. When you look at why utility-scale solar construction isn't happening fast enough, you quickly find that there are fundamental scaling problems associated with getting hundreds of people to very remote construction sites every day for the duration of a project -- and these problems get worse as the sites get larger and more remote. While our robots will reduce the number of people required to build a given MW of solar capacity, increasing the labor supply will dramatically grow the number of solar installations happening overall each year, and with it create a lot of skilled construction jobs.

> My understanding is that solar installation is the next (semi?) skilled labor that could potentially be careers for many people.

This is partially true -- a lot of the more specialized solar jobs show up in the residential solar market, which is growing quite quickly (residential solar grew 30% in 2021 over 2020). The training period for the tasks we're performing on large-scale sites is a couple of days.

Re: Launch HN: Charge Robotics (YC S21) - Robots that build solar farms

#37

Post by cmuell89 »

manholio wrote: post #29

This seems to be the same age-old problem of construction automation. A system that can really deliver for solar farms could be adapted for many other construction types, at least in principle. Since the world has largely failed to automate construction, and not for lack of trying, you really have to wonder if a startup could really disrupt the field, and I say that as an automation engineer. The Construction Physics…

I disagree that this is the same age-old problem. Automation in construction has failed more often than not in scenarios that require a high-level of engineering and/or exhibit complex tasking on-site. Your second listed article provides a good rationale for the failure of automation to infiltrate construction: mechanization. Many of the on-site build requirements for construction application are much more complicated and intricate than some of the motions required for agricultural automation. Furthermore, process design in construction is human-centric with a wide gap to transition to automation-centric design. This is well-outlined in your third article e.g. setup/tear-down costs, robot unfriendly environments, start-stop processes.

However, Charge Robotics has a problem that is generally free of much of the above hindrances and is employing a modular approach. Modular construction can lend itself very well to automation. See the modular housing boom that employs automation quite heavily.

One of the more complex construction portions of the build is handled by a portable factory:

"First, a portable robotic factory placed on-site assembles sections of racking hardware and solar modules. This factory fits inside a shipping container. Robotic arms pick up solar modules from a stack and fasten them to a long metal tube (the "torque tube")."

This process could also employ human labor as well. The rest of the build process requires a more simple transfer of these pre-built components with a final assembly:

"Second, autonomous delivery vehicles distribute these assembled sections into the field and fasten them in place onto target destination piles."

The locations of operation are large open fields with minimal occlusion (which often makes robots in many construction settings infeasible) and reuses prior equipment (bankability and minimizes setup/tear down costs).

I don't think this is an easy problem as there are significant technical engineering requirements, but if each modular process can be proven effective, then the external factors that prohibit automation adoption in construction outlined above are fairly minimal.

Re: Launch HN: Charge Robotics (YC S21) - Robots that build solar farms

#39

Post by justicz »

cmuell89 wrote: post #37
manholio wrote: post #29

This seems to be the same age-old problem of construction automation. A system that can really deliver for solar farms could be adapted for many other construction types, at least in principle. Since the world has largely failed to automate construction, and not for lack of trying, you really have to wonder if a startup could really disrupt the field, and I say that as an automation engineer. The Construction Physics…

I disagree that this is the same age-old problem. Automation in construction has failed more often than not in scenarios that require a high-level of engineering and/or exhibit complex tasking on-site. Your second listed article provides a good rationale for the failure of automation to infiltrate construction: mechanization. Many of the on-site build requirements for construction application are much more complicate…

Thanks for putting this together! This is basically what we would've written. There are many aspects of solar construction that make it a much more robot-friendly environment to operate in than that of a generic construction site (detailed engineering drawings with GPS locations of piles, graded terrain, low number of obstacles). And as you mentioned, we're eliminating a lot of variables by bringing a portable factory onto the site.
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