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Launch HN: Charge Robotics (YC S21) - Robots that build solar farms

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Re: Launch HN: Charge Robotics (YC S21) - Robots that build solar farms

#21

Post by banks_h »

marcell wrote: post #15

Is labor cost a significant obstacle to building solar farms? What % of initial capital goes to labor?

Reports are somewhat varied here but we find that about 10-20% of the overall site cost goes into labor. The bulk of the rest is component cost for solar modules and tracking systems, which are relatively commoditized and so are a thin margin above the cost of the raw materials to make them (silicon, steel). Those costs won't drop unless the underlying materials get cheaper.

We find that beyond the direct cost, the logistics of getting hundreds of people to a remote site is a significant challenge for construction companies. We directly saw how much of a hurdle this can be when we were on a site with the closest city an hour and a half away. Weather conditions are also a factor here, work on the site was actually shut down due to conditions that were too cold for laborers.

As we've interviewed solar construction companies, all of them have told us that they're turning down potential jobs just because they don't have enough people/capacity to build them. Unfortunately they can't simply raise their hourly rate by a few dollars to make this problem go away, because the challenges are more the regional specificity and logistical challenges of getting workers to sites.

Re: Launch HN: Charge Robotics (YC S21) - Robots that build solar farms

#22

Post by banks_h »

ewjt wrote: post #20

Aside from labor replacement and the implied capital efficiency, are there other benefits automation can bring to solar installations?

Absolutely. A couple that we're closely looking at:

Better documentation/data/insight into exactly what was built when, install rates, fuel consumption, and vehicle utilization during construction. Having our robots take a timestamped picture of every bolt that's installed is a significant win for construction companies in case any warranty issues come up after install. Currently there's not much visibility into exactly what was built where/when, so concrete data here will help significantly with scheduling/planning. We can actually generate a live updating map of the solar farm as it's being built.

Nighttime operation. Currently, all tasks on the site are performed during the day, so any amount of work we can shift to night time reduces site congestion. This actually can speed up the overall installation, as right now there's limited space between rows of panels, and multiple teams/vehicles trying to navigate through them simultaneously. We think of nighttime operation as analogous to parallelization as tasks that workers were waiting on can be performed asynchronously.

Re: Launch HN: Charge Robotics (YC S21) - Robots that build solar farms

#24

Post by veb »

gridspy wrote: post #18

Amazing. Almost makes me want to move to the states (from NZ) to work with you. Always gratifying to see a job posting where you tick every box. What a great automation environment! Almost clean-slate too, you don't need to integrate with a patchwork of other solutions that are different per site. Robots as a service is definitely the way to go. Much lower apparent risk for your clients, less support costs for out of…

Mate, why don't you start something like this in NZ? We totally need more robotic startups IMO.

Years ago I 'worked' at Scott Technologies, around the time they were making this 'smart' straw making machine that had the chocolate/strawberry flavour inside the straw and you just put it in some milk and bam. Really cool going from planning to actually testing the robot (was for some client, can't remember who). I did this while on a high school placement programme in year 13.

I really love robotics, but I moved in a different direction after that!

Re: Launch HN: Charge Robotics (YC S21) - Robots that build solar farms

#25

Post by atlasunshrugged »

This is super cool! I'm curious how much of a problem the policy side of things is here? My impression is that some of these projects fail because of NIMBYism and long lawsuits over land use and the like (despite the net positive climate impact).

Re: Launch HN: Charge Robotics (YC S21) - Robots that build solar farms

#26

Post by justicz »

atlasunshrugged wrote: post #25

This is super cool! I'm curious how much of a problem the policy side of things is here? My impression is that some of these projects fail because of NIMBYism and long lawsuits over land use and the like (despite the net positive climate impact).

This definitely comes up. Some communities are more receptive to solar than others, and it is important that the local community buys into a project before it gets built. We've definitely passed by signs in the lawns of local residents unhappy about the project being built next door.

We are fortunate in that those sorts of problems are actually largely the responsibility of the solar project developer, whose job it is to finance the project, get land rights, do the appropriate environmental/interconnect studies, and build relationships with the community. The developer lets the construction company (and us) focus on building the project. But it's an excellent question.

Re: Launch HN: Charge Robotics (YC S21) - Robots that build solar farms

#27

Post by mrraj »

Interesting idea - having worked in the back office of a solar construction company for a number of years I can see a few challenges.

Install labor is relatively cheap but more importantly flexible - relative to the cost of the project install is low double digits %. If a job isn't running smoothly you cut your temps and move your main crew over to another site or send them home if they're local. I would wonder how this work fit in with an automated build/install solution.

Unless you have control at the GC level you're going to be start/stop with electricians cutting trenches in front of you, missing materials (tariffs/port strikes), permitting delays, etc, and you'll have expensive idling equipment that's tough to move.

I get that this is the problem you're trying to solve - but I'd definitely suggest going to enough bread and butter 2-10MW sites where this sort of thing is more common. Also keep in mind Central CA in summer is not Massachusetts in November, weather makes all this 10x worse.

Re: Launch HN: Charge Robotics (YC S21) - Robots that build solar farms

#28

Post by toomuchtodo »

banks_h wrote: post #21
marcell wrote: post #15

Is labor cost a significant obstacle to building solar farms? What % of initial capital goes to labor?

Reports are somewhat varied here but we find that about 10-20% of the overall site cost goes into labor. The bulk of the rest is component cost for solar modules and tracking systems, which are relatively commoditized and so are a thin margin above the cost of the raw materials to make them (silicon, steel). Those costs won't drop unless the underlying materials get cheaper. We find that beyond the direct cost, the l…

Is the solution than perhaps the rapid build up and turn down of mini cities for workers during the build phase? The problem sounds like Black Rock City public works for solar projects, versus robots for labor needs that can change rapidly (trenching, racking install, panel mounting, etc).

TLDR Worker housing and logistics vs robotics.

Re: Launch HN: Charge Robotics (YC S21) - Robots that build solar farms

#29

Post by manholio »

This seems to be the same age-old problem of construction automation. A system that can really deliver for solar farms could be adapted for many other construction types, at least in principle. Since the world has largely failed to automate construction, and not for lack of trying, you really have to wonder if a startup could really disrupt the field, and I say that as an automation engineer.

The Construction Physics blog is mandatory lecture on this subject. You will find the many and varied ways huge companies failed at automating construction, and why construction is just different than other fields:

https://constructionphysics.substack.com/p/where-are-the-rob...

https://constructionphysics.substack.com/p/why-did-agricultu...

https://constructionphysics.substack.com/p/japans-skyscraper...

Re: Launch HN: Charge Robotics (YC S21) - Robots that build solar farms

#30

Post by banks_h »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #28
banks_h wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reports are somewhat varied here but we find that about 10-20% of the overall site cost goes into labor. The bulk of the rest is component cost for solar modules and tracking systems, which are relatively commoditized and so are a thin margin above the cost of the raw materials to make them (silicon, steel). Those costs won't drop unless the underlying materials get cheaper. We find that beyond the direct cost, the l…

Is the solution than perhaps the rapid build up and turn down of mini cities for workers during the build phase? The problem sounds like Black Rock City public works for solar projects, versus robots for labor needs that can change rapidly (trenching, racking install, panel mounting, etc). TLDR Worker housing and logistics vs robotics.

Black Rock City's DPW for solar is a really interesting idea! Temporary housing is definitely used at times for more remote projects, but it's more expensive than just booking out all the local hotels (of course, once you've saturated hotel rooms you might not have the option).

Fortunately the labor needs are typically predictable, with each step you mentioned happening in parallel across a site spanning 100's or 1000's of acres. One of the main reasons that larger sites are particularly appealing for us is that the work done by our robots is continuously in demand somewhere, as opposed to a small site which might move in more discrete stages and have the rapidly changing needs you mentioned.

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