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3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

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Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#161

Post by yucky »

Archelaos wrote: post #116
mikaeluman wrote: post #91

This has come up many times by now. But the supposed transition to renewable energy in Germany was merely a substitution of natural gas for nuclear power. What bothers me greatly is that Germany still has not come to turns with the fact that they need nuclear power. That is a long and costly investment to make and you need to start right away. LNG can only get you so far and renewable sources just can't provide the e…

Germany does not need nuclear power. This is far too expensive and dangerous. The future is renewable.

>The future is renewable.

So what should they do in the present?

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#162

Post by numpad0 »

c0nducktr wrote: post #72
plandis wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This person is a troll. For example here is one of their previous posts: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30681090 “Ask HN: Ukrainians, why don’t you surrender?”

That's not trolling, it's just not a popular opinion.

Considering that Russia is literally shelling civilians with intent and sending captive civilians to gulags, I think their options boil down to:

a) die, or,

b) fight to death with so-so chances of survival.

It is not a choice between:

x) to live under Russian rule(impossible as Russians don’t tolerate life)

x) or die(possible but not a choice).

As such, recommending a surrender is just trolling. Blame Russians for that!

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#163

Post by rich_sasha »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #125
gruez wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or on batteries, or on liquid salt thermal storage upgrades for old fossil plants, or on hydro storage, or on salt cavern pneumatic pressure, or on hydrogen, or on regenerative iron dust cycles, or... And how cost effective are those storage methods?

Compared to gas at pre-war prices, they were getting close but not quite competitive. Compared to current gas prices or nuclear, batteries are dirt cheap and some of the others are almost as cheap as batteries.

Could you suggest some links?

I'd be very happy with renewables+batteries, but the fact it's so quiet suggests to me this isn't so simple. Certainly in Northern Europe where dark, windless winters exist - i.e. you need storage potentially for weeks, not a small few hours.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#164

Post by parkingrift »

qaq wrote: post #97
parkingrift wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you are suggesting here is equivalent to blowing up a bridge and then suggesting that there are other ways to cross a river. Yes, there are other oil and gas suppliers. No, Germany and the EU cannot just suddenly switch. Fools for relying on Russian energy in the first place.

They can't suddenly switch 100% they can start shifting oil fairly quickly.

It depends on your definition of "fairly quickly." Within months to years, yes. Within weeks, no.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#165

Post by aksss »

parkingrift wrote: post #89
qaq wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the cost of 8 million refuges in EU? (since you are focusing on cost) Russia is not the only oil and gas supplier

What you are suggesting here is equivalent to blowing up a bridge and then suggesting that there are other ways to cross a river. Yes, there are other oil and gas suppliers. No, Germany and the EU cannot just suddenly switch. Fools for relying on Russian energy in the first place.

“Fools for relying on Russian energy in the first place.”

This is a tough one. Yes, but at same time there was and still is a long term benefit to normalizing Russia’s identity as a “Western” power. That’s a long haul project and Germany/EU wasn’t wrong to engage economically with them, mutually, to that end.

Given the history of Germany/Russia in particular, this mutual dependence is arguably working exactly as it was intended - cooling impulses.

Arguably an error to become strategically dependent upon a resource pool you’re not capable of securing for yourself when the chips are down but hasn’t that ever been Germany’s post-industrial challenge? Much to the world’s relief, I might add.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#166

Post by macspoofing »

HWR_14 wrote: post #58
j-pb wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or on batteries, or on liquid salt thermal storage upgrades for old fossil plants, or on hydro storage, or on salt cavern pneumatic pressure, or on hydrogen, or on regenerative iron dust cycles, or... The idea that it's nuclear or fossil for baseload is a false dichotomy, that ingores the dozens of intermediary storage solutions. Solar is currently the cheapest source of energy with a margin. Add storage to an overpr…

> The german failure to finish the "energiewende" is a political one, And that is one of the reasons that the most recent election led to the elevation of the Green Party.

And I'm going to make a prediction: Nothing will change because this isn't a political issue. This is a materials science, physics, and chemistry issue. We do have have a battery technology to get around solar/wind intermittency issues. Doesn't matter who is in charge.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#167

Post by tuyguntn »

FDSGSG wrote: post #148
tuyguntn wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what you are suggesting is we should not fight for basic human rights and give everyone equal opportunity to live (they haven't chose to be born, so why not give them at least a chance to live), instead we should fight for people who are like us? close to us? And we don't give shit to other people dying? Imagine, Germany bans Russian oil, does it make you a happy if they buy oil from Saudi? For me its same, both side…

It's not the same for me. I live in Europe, not the Middle East. Very simple. No matter how evil the Saudis are, their bullshit does not affect me in the same way that Russian actions do.

> It's not the same for me. I live in Europe, not the Middle East. Very simple.

That's the reason why Ukraine war happened. We don't care, unless it is happening in our neighborhood! Now it is too late.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#168

Post by choeger »

ummonk wrote: post #101
choeger wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There won't be consensus. This war started over one party having lots of demands and not even recognizing the other party as sovereign and the other party just wanting to be left in peace. How the fuck should a compromise look like here? It's like being robbed at gunpoint and negotiating a deal with the robber about how much you might keep.

This war started in 2014 when a foreign funded protest was created to overthrow a democratically elected (albeit corrupt) government. This government then responded to local demands for autonomy in minority provinces by attacking them with neo-Nazi militia for the past 8 years.

That's just retroactive rewriting of history. These "local demands for autonomy" where a violent, foreign funded, uprising. It was about to be crushed by the legitimate Ukrainian military which was in turn crushed by the Russian army. The Neonazi militias occured afterwards and filled the power vacuum left by Ukrainian army.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#169

Post by gre »

hackerfromthefu wrote: post #140
c0nducktr wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not trolling, it's just not a popular opinion.

The theme of their posts seems consistent with what a russian psy-op would be. Probably a paid inciter/troll.

Is it hard to imagine there are people who want Putin to win as fast as possible so that fewer lives are lost and nuclear war is prevented? Ukraine should have stayed neutral wrt NATO, and at any time Zelensky can end his war, but he won't.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#170

Post by poutine »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #125
gruez wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or on batteries, or on liquid salt thermal storage upgrades for old fossil plants, or on hydro storage, or on salt cavern pneumatic pressure, or on hydrogen, or on regenerative iron dust cycles, or... And how cost effective are those storage methods?

Compared to gas at pre-war prices, they were getting close but not quite competitive. Compared to current gas prices or nuclear, batteries are dirt cheap and some of the others are almost as cheap as batteries.

If you want hours of battery storage sure, not if you want seasonal storage. That makes solar+battery a niche, not something you base your energy economy on. Besides, even if you did there's not enough minerals being mined to do battery grid storage at scale to move entire economies over to it.
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