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I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

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Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#901

Post by TameAntelope »

cuteboy19 wrote: post #884
TameAntelope wrote: post #698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re not less qualified, that’s the whole problem. There is no stack rank of qualified candidates for a collegiate cohort, because it is not a precise or accurate process. There are more students who apply to Harvard each year with perfect SAT scores and who are valedictorians than there are openings in a given Harvard cohort.

This is not true. As the Harvard lawsuit showed, Harvard very clearly penalized Asian Americans by giving them lower personality scores.

Showed? You mean "argues", right? This has been case law via the Supreme Court for over fifty years, and only because the court is currently so thoroughly packed with a singular ideology is it getting considered again.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#902

Post by mgh2 »

kube-system wrote: post #191
mgh2 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try hiring someone without a degree in healthcare: someone's life is on the line, not some rich man's toy.

Where did you get that impression? There are tons of people in healthcare without a degree. Quite common, even. You can make good money working in healthcare with as little as a certificate.

Please give examples. This refers to health's decision makers- doctors, nurses, etc. not secretaries

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#903

Post by cuteboy19 »

TameAntelope wrote: post #901
cuteboy19 wrote: post #884

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true. As the Harvard lawsuit showed, Harvard very clearly penalized Asian Americans by giving them lower personality scores.

Showed? You mean "argues", right? This has been case law via the Supreme Court for over fifty years, and only because the court is currently so thoroughly packed with a singular ideology is it getting considered again.

No, the facts were pretty obvious and statistical in nature. The only argument was whether this was legal or not. Even pro-Affirmative action groups like Vox agree that there is discrimination against Asians

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#904

Post by mywittyname »

hackernewds wrote: post #426
glued wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was on track to go to a prestigious university in high school when my fundamentalist christian parents kicked me out of the house at the age of 16. I ended up jumping around to live with different friends then eventually my grandparents. I had no money and thought I had no future. The stress was killing me, my grades and SAT score suffered. I ended up at a small state school in rural Georgia because of this. Today…

Although I'm glad it worked out for you, this sounds like a very niche case that would fail every single measure of exampination. Neither is working at a FANG company a signal of intelligence.

I know anecdotes are not the singular of data, but I knew plenty of people whose young lives mirrored the OPs. My family had two couch-surfing classmates (at different times).

Neglectful parents are common.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#905

Post by sidr »

mywittyname wrote: post #885
Forgeties79 wrote: post #854

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fascinating. I’ll look into these - never heard of them!

I think these are the evolution of the community college system. Many institutions that previous issued two-year degrees and certificates began offering four-year degrees, perhaps in conjunction with a larger, local university to fill gaps.

Not really. A lot of these small liberal arts colleges date back to the 1800s. The more prestigious ones are often priced like private R1 institutions as well. I'm sure there are some two-year institutions that started offering four-year degrees, but it's not typically the case afaik.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#906

Post by newbamboo »

Professors teach our elite how to think. Some former students escape their cognitive strictures, so perhaps sama is not too heavily influenced by his schooling. But most elites are, obviously the product of their educational experiences. And these well trained elites run the government and control the media. The media trains the unwashed masses how to think through culture creation and the like. I won’t bet against the universities, though I agree strongly with the case against them.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#907

Post by sidr »

doom2 wrote: post #886
mordymoop wrote: post #851

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn’t find out until many years after graduating that the US is sprinkled with what are known as Primarily Undergraduate Institutions (PUIs), including a large number of well-regarded 4-year colleged which don’t have graduate programs, the professors don’t do (much) research (but do have PhDs generally) and the hiring and evaluation decisions are 90% based on teaching. These institutions are usually on the small s…

How many of them have strong STEM programs though? My partner went to a PUI, but it was firmly a liberal arts school (not that you can't move into STEM with a liberal arts degree). I chose my own undergraduate school because it had a decent engineering program but obviously was a research university. The two I can think of are Harvey Mudd and Rose Hulman.

I went to one of these liberal arts college. They all (typically) have science and math departments. Engineering typically doesn't fall under the purview of liberal arts (though pure science and math certainly do). The problem tends to be availability of upper-level electives if you actually care about learning certain topics and don't want to just complete the requirements. Also, your exposure to research opportunities are typically external to your own institution (there are exceptions to this). I'd say the required courses in the first two+ years are a better experience than large research universities though.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#908

Post by cutenewt »

imgabe wrote: post #312

Higher education in the US is trying to fulfill so many roles it's unsustainable. - teaching marketable skills so people can get jobs - teaching "how to think" and learning about art and culture - Performing cutting edge research - minor league sports teams The large state schools are trying to fulfill all these conflicting roles. We should probably break them out to separate entities. If you have a physicist who's a…

This is a great take.

If there's one domino that should fall first, it's the student-athlete one.

It's the easiest one to break away (relative to everything else) and should be the cleanest too.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#909

Post by xyzzyz »

wolverine876 wrote: post #710
xyzzyz wrote: post #628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US was already majority urban by 1930, though not by much. But yes, you are correct that life was harder back then, which made people tougher.

> life was harder back then, which made people tougher Unintuitively, harder lives don't make people tougher. Intuitively, they make people more exhausted and traumatized. Look at how functional people were back then when they were elderly (though that could be due to other aspects of health). Look at anyone who has had a hard life; they wear down. Similarly, children, contrary to some pop politico-psychology, genera…

From my experience of growing up around people who lived through war and then repressive regime and poverty, what you describe above is very much opposite to what I have seen.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#910

Post by bryanrasmussen »

kkjjkgjjgg wrote: post #822
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #763

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Howard Hughes was at his most batshit crazy and generally out of touch with anything resembling humanity his businesses kept being profitable, perhaps once you have a lot of money it is difficult to really screw it up.

So your claim is that Altman used to be capable of making money, but is not anymore? Why? He doesn't come across as crazy and out of touch to me.

>So your claim is that Altman used to be capable of making money, but is not anymore?

No, the parent comment to yours was that Altman was out of touch.

Your reply was that he makes money, which caused me to infer that you thought he could not be out of touch because of a general belief that people who are out of touch cannot be making money.

My reply gave an example of someone that was definitely out of touch but still made money, thus showing that one cannot reason that the ability to make money proves that one is in touch.

So in response to your last comment - I don't have an opinion on Altman, I just have an example of someone who made money while out of touch. That actually would mean the opposite of what you seem to think I meant, if I thought that Howard Hughes at his craziest could make money why would you assume I thought Altman could not?

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