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I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

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Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#501

Post by rkalla »

throwawaycities wrote: post #451

I think the writing on the wall is clear regarding student loans. The entire notion of taxpayer funded student loans is a scam on both taxpayers and students. It’s a system that allows the colleges/universities to charge any tuition they want and guarantees there will be an artificial demand. For about a decade at least 1M student loan holders default per year. Long before the defaults reached that high, everyone inv…

With the inflation we've seen in the last 24 months do you think the tuition will still come back to earth or just stay put for a decade or more?

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#502

Post by judge2020 »

google234123 wrote: post #496
jeffbee wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SAT's past racial bias is still echoing through the nation. There were still test questions based on Very White Things like cotillions and yachting as recently as 40 years ago. The repercussions of those things could be that some person barely missed getting admitted to a university, took a lifetime earnings hit, lived in a poorer town with worse schools, and now their kids who may be very smart and talented also…

I wish that those institutions and people on your side of the issue would be more honest about what they are doing. If Harvard would just come out and admit to the Supreme Court that they discriminate based on race, it would made the case much easier and much easier politically to shut it down.

Anyone actually in the position to make change won't, since change means work and directly puts them and their coworkers' jobs in jeopardy. The road to non-discriminatory behavior can only be implemented by the management and investors running the show, so it's done in their way and on their time table.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#503

Post by Retric »

ModernMech wrote: post #462
Retric wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can also go to a school where professors are employed for their ability to teach. Choosing to go to a research institution seems like such an obviously poor choice it’s strange people get suckered into it. But it’s clear education is a low priority for both students and collages.

> Choosing to go to a research institution seems like such an obviously poor choice it’s strange people get suckered into it. The best educations happen in research labs. Undergraduates should get a good foundation years 1 and 2, and then find their way as a junior research assistant years 3 and 4 if they want to make the best of their University years. These days you can follow along with any course you want on YouT…

I find people from research institutions are significantly more likely to misunderstand the fundamentals. Statistics for example is based on very specific assumptions and it’s really important to understand what they are to avoid making huge mistakes.

There’s this unfortunate idea that tests are there for the school rather than the student. Avoiding misunderstanding is critical and getting something wrong is one way to discover them. But that’s really inefficient, the basic question and answers with a professor are why your not simply reading from a textbook or watching a YouTube video.

That said, if you went to a horrible collage I can see why you would think YouTube was just as good and doing research was the real secret to learning.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#504

Post by bnralt »

imgabe wrote: post #312

Higher education in the US is trying to fulfill so many roles it's unsustainable. - teaching marketable skills so people can get jobs - teaching "how to think" and learning about art and culture - Performing cutting edge research - minor league sports teams The large state schools are trying to fulfill all these conflicting roles. We should probably break them out to separate entities. If you have a physicist who's a…

It's also important to note that higher education is responsible both for education, and for handing out credentials. Tying these two together real screws over the student. Imagine if driving schools were the only ones who administered driving tests, and they required you to take two years of expensive classes, including numerous classes that had nothing to do with driving. Most people would take them simply because they had to, even if they saw little value in them.

If you split these two - say, had a national assessment and credentialing program that didn't require a college education - I bet most students would find much cheaper, better, and quicker ways to learn than college.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#505

Post by a257 »

throwawaycities wrote: post #451

I think the writing on the wall is clear regarding student loans. The entire notion of taxpayer funded student loans is a scam on both taxpayers and students. It’s a system that allows the colleges/universities to charge any tuition they want and guarantees there will be an artificial demand. For about a decade at least 1M student loan holders default per year. Long before the defaults reached that high, everyone inv…

If government funded student loans are eliminated and as a result the demand goes down, will the price of education decrease by the same amount? If the demand is relatively inelastic, wouldn't it be the case that it wouldn't lower the price as much as expected? In other words, how elastic is the demand for education? How much of the current costs are resulting from taxpayer funded student loans?

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#506

Post by [deleted] »

walkhour wrote: post #127
Tretiotrr wrote: post #57

In Germany you study for free. There was a video (perhaps even from kurzgesagt) which describes how critical it is for our society to allow as many people as easy access to knowledge as possible and not only for obvious reasons but also to increase the chance for all of us that the hidden genius is finding a cure for cancer. You can even study for free in Germany as an non German. You know what happens? Those people…

What do you think about German kids being sent to different kinds of highschools at age 10. Most of the people attending Hauptschule don't attend university [0]. In some regions 60% of the children attend it. Aren't you concerned that the person who could discover the cure for cancer is in Hauptschule right now? Imagine a Germany in which the rest of your life isn't determined at age ten. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.o…

[deleted]

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#507

Post by howenterprisey »

User23 wrote: post #459
phdelightful wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you don’t offer much to work with, I assume you mean: “I disgree. People at the cutting edge should be educating others both to help them make their ideas accessible and connect them with the future of their discipline.” I encourage you to add more than a single word to the conversation.

Why? You just showed how much that single word conveyed. For which I thank you. Being overly specific is rarely productive. I was writing for people such as you. As for the rest? Well anyone who can’t make such a trivial inference obviously has nothing interesting to say about didactic methods.

Because you contributed so little to the conversation that anyone could trivially fill in your response.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#508

Post by Izkata »

TameAntelope wrote: post #405
Izkata wrote: post #380

> It seems very clear that elite colleges discriminate against Asian-American students, and that the Supreme Court is going to find this. (One expert said no discrimination would result in around 65% Asian-American admits.) > The fact that this has been so tolerated speaks volumes. Tolerated? It's been encouraged for at least two decades, under the name "affirmative action".

I feel like this glosses over the fact that more people than can be admitted are qualified to be admitted to the schools who "discriminate". When the pool of qualified applicants is 3x your available positions, it seems to make sense to me to attempt to match the population makeup of the United States at large when selecting from that pool, since otherwise you're more or less going to do it randomly. Helping one grou…

A given college can only accept a certain number of students each term. Giving a slot to a less-qualified student necessitates dropping a more-qualified student, making it zero-sum.

I'm not talking about Harvard specifically (I don't even know what case you're talking about), this is just the normal state of colleges in the US.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#509

Post by sometimeshuman »

brigandish wrote: post #304
wolverine876 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be very interesting to hear your personal experience. But how can you make general statements about all poor schools?

He's responding to an anecdote - one that sounds absurd, by the way - so I would say that responding with an anecdote is fine, especially one that actually sounds realistic. Let's hear some anecdotes about being pushed hard in schools based in poor areas before dismissing it.

"sounds absurd, by the way".. that perhaps explains all the downvotes. One of the surprises about getting older is that stories from your youth sound more and more absurd with time. I didn't grow up with the Internet and the "MIT whiz kid" wasn't common in movies/shows until the mid 90's and ever after. What was a thing during my high school days were the relentless TV commercials for tech schools masquerading as advanced degree institutions. Who lies on HN about a personal story BTW ? What would be the point.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#510

Post by mikpanko »

One interesting idea is replacing traditional student loans with personal funding based on "personal equity", similar to VC funding of startups. Backers would provide funds for individual's education in exchange for a percentage of their lifetime earnings. Obviously, there is a number of questions to think through here, but the incentives of all participants seem to be much better aligned to produce best results for the society. Lambda School / BloomTech and a few other companies are already looking in this direction but haven't broken into mainstream yet.
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