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George Hotz against the institutions

return.life

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Re: George Hotz against the institutions

#141

Post by carlosdp »

Traster wrote: post #111

To be honest, it's just a little sad that reading this article it seems that Hotz hasn't grown up much, and that attitude isn't great to see from a person working on a safety critical application. If you want to put your hands in the life of George Hotz fine, but keep the hell away from the public roads.

I think you are extrapolating something that doesn't exist in the article...

Comma implemented driver attention monitoring into their device before Tesla did, and George had been advocating Tesla do it for a long time before they finally did. He talks about this in the most recent podcast with Lex Friedman.

That doesn't sound like someone who is too immature to work on a safety critical application to me.

Re: George Hotz against the institutions

#142

Post by chews »

bko wrote: post #140

> Apart from a criminal streak, Hotz shares with Raskolnikov, Dostoyevsky’s antihero, a predilection for instrumental reason and an urge to test his own mettle, to know himself by knowing his limits. As a young adult Hotz allowed himself to become addicted to prescription opiates almost as an experience in self-mastery. “I did it, I was addicted, and I quit,” he told me. “I think I had to have that experience. I don’…

I do try and compete at this level of difficulty. When it comes to depth of skill he feels like an anchor who will drown those not as heavy as him.

Re: George Hotz against the institutions

#143

Post by ricardobayes »

md2020 wrote: post #114

Has anyone in this thread who is commenting to hate on Hotz/Comma tried the product or even watched a video of it? I have their device in my car, and I love it. Lots of people in here saying this is doomed to fail and that e2e won’t work seem to not realize that Comma has pretty much already succeeded. Their e2e lateral policy is fantastic, and e2e longitudinal is shipping this year probably. They livestream demos on…

Yes, used extensively. It gave back control very often in tight turns, and the version I had blacked out the screen when changing lanes. It was a product I was happy to fiddle with, but definitely wouldn't sit my wife and kids to drive down from SF to LA with.

Re: George Hotz against the institutions

#144

Post by tenuousemphasis »

stavros wrote: post #134
elif wrote: post #98

The comma business model is built upon a car interface created by manufacturers for their own purposes. Those manufacturers are working on their own autonomous driving programs in various stages. None of those manufacturers want crash statistics for their vehicles being driven autonomously. Comma is clearly the unwanted guest in the room... the only positive outcome for them is acquihire when one of the manufacturers…

I feel simultaneously amused and dismayed at your "their business model is doomed" analysis that somehow fails to account for the business model of "sell people something they want at a profitable price". I want to say "peak HN" but that would be doing the HN community a disservice, so I'll say "peak 'peak HN'" instead.

I think the point is that their business model is in conflict with that of the auto manufacturers, and that their business model depends on the auto manufacturers continuing to allow theirs to exist.

Re: George Hotz against the institutions

#145

Post by [deleted] »

TimPC wrote: post #82

I feel sorry for him. Spending your life trying to make it into a good story is sad. Most good stories have characters who are intentionally flawed in order to create conflict and plot. The best lives are fairly boring as far as narrative plot goes. It’s even a curse to live in interesting times.

[deleted]

Re: George Hotz against the institutions

#146

Post by ricardobayes »

majkinetor wrote: post #116
md2020 wrote: post #114

Has anyone in this thread who is commenting to hate on Hotz/Comma tried the product or even watched a video of it? I have their device in my car, and I love it. Lots of people in here saying this is doomed to fail and that e2e won’t work seem to not realize that Comma has pretty much already succeeded. Their e2e lateral policy is fantastic, and e2e longitudinal is shipping this year probably. They livestream demos on…

I guess he has 0 fucks to give, judged from this interview. Respect!

Exactly the attitude I want from someone whose software can kill.

Re: George Hotz against the institutions

#147

Post by k1ll3r »

chews wrote: post #142
bko wrote: post #140

> Apart from a criminal streak, Hotz shares with Raskolnikov, Dostoyevsky’s antihero, a predilection for instrumental reason and an urge to test his own mettle, to know himself by knowing his limits. As a young adult Hotz allowed himself to become addicted to prescription opiates almost as an experience in self-mastery. “I did it, I was addicted, and I quit,” he told me. “I think I had to have that experience. I don’…

I do try and compete at this level of difficulty. When it comes to depth of skill he feels like an anchor who will drown those not as heavy as him.

what

Re: George Hotz against the institutions

#148

Post by Traster »

carlosdp wrote: post #141
Traster wrote: post #111

To be honest, it's just a little sad that reading this article it seems that Hotz hasn't grown up much, and that attitude isn't great to see from a person working on a safety critical application. If you want to put your hands in the life of George Hotz fine, but keep the hell away from the public roads.

I think you are extrapolating something that doesn't exist in the article... Comma implemented driver attention monitoring into their device before Tesla did, and George had been advocating Tesla do it for a long time before they finally did. He talks about this in the most recent podcast with Lex Friedman. That doesn't sound like someone who is too immature to work on a safety critical application to me.

Okay, if you're advocating Tesla as some paragon of safety we're in a different universe. Telsa is known as the company as notoriously the least safety concious. Other car companies have comparable technology to Tesla marketed under ADAS. Why? Because they don't want to burn their reputations to the ground for having similar attitudes towards safety as Tesla. The entire approach of Comma is "Maybe we can train a computer to be slightly worse than a human driver"

Re: George Hotz against the institutions

#149

Post by AlexAltea »

Traster wrote: post #111

To be honest, it's just a little sad that reading this article it seems that Hotz hasn't grown up much, and that attitude isn't great to see from a person working on a safety critical application. If you want to put your hands in the life of George Hotz fine, but keep the hell away from the public roads.

> it seems that Hotz hasn't grown up much

What do you mean by "growing up"? Hopefully not embracing the pervasive mediocrity of institutions and defending the current status quo.

Re: George Hotz against the institutions

#150

Post by eschaton »

thowaway673y wrote: post #16
CyberRabbi wrote: post #9

Interesting discussion of AI and the decline of civilization. His allergies to power are a bit naive though not completely unfounded, at least Stallman comes to mind as an example of someone who was able to change the course of history without much personal power, instead he crafted ideas that had power. Some ideas are powerful enough to compel enough people to act in line with them. Ultimately accomplishing anything…

RMS is no normal human, he can match with 5 or 6 100x programmers from symbolic company which they have admitted.

Except, from what I’ve heard, RMS is full of shit about that and was actually caught copy-and-pasting Symbolics code. Kind of like how he originally based GNU emacs on gosmacs and early versions had to be removed from distribution as a result.
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