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I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

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Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#51
"But cancelling all student debt and then continuing to issue new debt to students that the university fails (i.e. by not putting them in a position to make enough money to easily pay it back) doesn't make sense."

That's one thing that never made any sense to me. I get it. I really do. But I've never seen any compelling, realistic answer to "And then what?". This only solves the problem of the HUGE number of people with crushing loan debt now. I get it, I really, really do. But... then what? What about the next decade? It's not getting any better.

The most important word in this is "realistic".

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#52
Definitely agree that removing the SAT appears to be related to the upcoming supreme court case about affirmative action. COVID was a good reason to delay it for a couple years. But schools are pushing it out further. That makes no sense.

It seems the SAT is increasingly considered "racist" because it reveals racial disparities in learning. What's next? Get rid of the driver's license test because it turns that white kids pass it at a higher rate than black kids?

Sam mentions that schools could down-weight the SAT but should still consider it. Why don't schools want to do that? My guess: if they have mediocre scores on record for a kid, then admitting him means reporting those scores to USNews. They'd rather not know that the kid has a score that would bring down their average.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#53

Twitter 'threads' are bad and people should feel badly for creating/posting them.

Imagine how busted archived Twitter threads are going to look in 20 years. If linkrot in the early Web is bad now, how bad will “tweet-rot” be, after Twitter declines into disuse, quite likely fails as a corporation, and its CDN is scattered to the winds?

I couldn’t care much less about VC or crypto-bro brain farts like the linked post, although historians writing about this period probably will be, if only to write cautionary tales. But there’s a lot of deeply interesting expertise that’s been crammed into this godawful format, especially during fraught times like the pandemic and the current Ukraine invasion. I can only guess that the experts in question assume that Twitter will be the format with the widest reach, although I have to doubt that will always be true. If the Internet Archive comes up with a project specifically targeted at archiving Twitter threads as coherent artifacts, I for one would be happy to earmark a donation for that.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#54

I don't like Twitter threads but I agree with Sam Altman in this case. Waiving student loan debt but not resolving the root cause will give a clear signal to colleges - Increase tuition as much as you want because the taxpayers will again pick up the tab in a few years .

Creditors would be on the hook - not colleges - if students default.

Taxpayers are the creditors for 92.6% student loans.

https://educationdata.org/student-loan-debt-statistics#:~:te....

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#55
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I nearly completely agree with you. The one thing that a twitter "threat" enables that is poorly supported in other formats is the ability to have comments on a particular sentence. The worst part of the twitter as a long form platform is when a single idea extends beyond the limitations of a single tweet.

I see your point about commenting on sentences, but would also argue that academic writing provides a better model for this via quotations and references

Yep, but there's no place that provides the combination of user base, potential for engagement, and commenting on sentences.

Long form is a much better format for comprehensive ideas, but the "this is something I want to comment on" isn't there and the engagement on the comment and comments on the comments rarely exists in those formats.

Medium's "highlight" and "respond" functionality is a rather poor implementation of that desired ability (the discoverability beyond the "top highlight" is difficult for other users) ... and then there's that whole "upgrade to read more" problem.

And beyond that, there's the bit that twitter has a large number of users - trying to traverse Wordpress pings and comment moderation... ugh.

Unfortunately, twitter is the best place that offers users, aggregation, no $ needed, comment on sentence, and the opportunity for engagement of followers.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#56
> Cancelling student debt is good if it's tied to fixing the problem going forward, which means not offering it, or having the colleges be the guarantor, or ISAs, or something.

What do you tell the upper middle class families that didn't buy a bigger house or pad their investment accounts so that they could help put 3 of their kids through schools? My parents spent at least $200k on undergrad education between me and my siblings (UVA, Cornell, UW-Madison).

Did they make the wrong decision? Should they have saddled us with debt? At 10% (ie: S&P AAR) that would net $600,000! When America becomes a place where you're punished for having invested in your children, it becomes a place where you will no longer want to live.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#57
In Germany you study for free.

There was a video (perhaps even from kurzgesagt) which describes how critical it is for our society to allow as many people as easy access to knowledge as possible and not only for obvious reasons but also to increase the chance for all of us that the hidden genius is finding a cure for cancer.

You can even study for free in Germany as an non German. You know what happens? Those people might stay in Germany and make Germany a better country.

Imagine a world were we compete globally with the best education system. Let's allow more people to shape our future.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#58
I'm concerned that the majority of "should we fix college or should we circumvent college" conversations don't bring up one of the scariest parts of our current economy: STEM jobs are the main viable path for economic stability and freedom.

All of the conversations I've seen implicitly assume that this is good, and that the solution to farmer workers (or other low paid workers) escaping poverty is to train them as software developers.

We really need farm workers, and most of them live in poverty. I love having more engineers, scientists, and doctors, but we desperately need non-STEM work to be a viable option

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#59

What's the word when people with trust and experience on one field suddenly trusted when they talk about other topics too? Saw this a lot with COVID but this is a good example too.

Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect? Although that's more about how news and social media are unreliable sources of information on all topics. I've heard "Engineer's Disease" or "Engineer Syndrome" used to describe the tendency of so-called technical people to think their expertise generalizes to topics in which they have no experience.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#60

> Cancelling student debt is good if it's tied to fixing the problem going forward, which means not offering it, or having the colleges be the guarantor, or ISAs, or something. What do you tell the upper middle class families that didn't buy a bigger house or pad their investment accounts so that they could help put 3 of their kids through schools? My parents spent at least $200k on undergrad education between me and…

You know, I've asked this exact question before, but I've changed my mind. Here is what I'd tell them: "Congratulations on being wealthy enough to afford tuition. Try to be considerate of the people less fortunate than you."
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