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I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

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Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#31

Post by trentgreene »

shagie wrote: post #17
anotherhue wrote: post #5

Twitter 'threads' are bad and people should feel badly for creating/posting them.

I nearly completely agree with you. The one thing that a twitter "threat" enables that is poorly supported in other formats is the ability to have comments on a particular sentence. The worst part of the twitter as a long form platform is when a single idea extends beyond the limitations of a single tweet.

I see your point about commenting on sentences, but would also argue that academic writing provides a better model for this via quotations and references

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#32

Post by moab »

mulcahey wrote: post #10

Few thoughts 1) The subreddit of my alma mater has been full of posts venting anxiety, depression, trouble with financial aid, trouble making friends, frustration with administration, etc for years now, exacerbated by COVID. While that may not be representative of the whole undergrad population, I can't help but be reminded of Thiel's line from Zero to One "Why are we doing this to ourselves?" 2) I'm now seeing not o…

These kind of prognostications /opinions are easily falsifiable by talking to your coworkers that went to other universities. Most of the top-25 schools have upper-div CS classes that are nothing like what you're taking about, with both faculty and TAs putting in enormous effort to make sure that courses are accessible and intellectually stimulating.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#33

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

itake wrote: post #12
zdragnar wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Price and value are decoupled for college degrees. STEM students are subsidized by liberal arts students, and many liberal arts degrees are not, by themselves, economically valuable (I said this as someone with just such a degree).

> STEM students are subsidized by liberal arts students Can you provide more context for this? How is the cost of teaching a STEM student higher than the cost of a liberal arts student? The classrooms are roughly the same. STEM student labs might be more expensive to manage, but that equipment is/(can be?) funded by research grants.

Research grants pay for research equipment. They do not cover student labs in any way.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#34

Post by ab_testing »

I don't like Twitter threads but I agree with Sam Altman in this case. Waiving student loan debt but not resolving the root cause will give a clear signal to colleges - Increase tuition as much as you want because the taxpayers will again pick up the tab in a few years .

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#35

Post by mulcahey »

moab wrote: post #32
mulcahey wrote: post #10

Few thoughts 1) The subreddit of my alma mater has been full of posts venting anxiety, depression, trouble with financial aid, trouble making friends, frustration with administration, etc for years now, exacerbated by COVID. While that may not be representative of the whole undergrad population, I can't help but be reminded of Thiel's line from Zero to One "Why are we doing this to ourselves?" 2) I'm now seeing not o…

These kind of prognostications /opinions are easily falsifiable by talking to your coworkers that went to other universities. Most of the top-25 schools have upper-div CS classes that are nothing like what you're taking about, with both faculty and TAs putting in enormous effort to make sure that courses are accessible and intellectually stimulating.

I went to a top 25 CS school. Half my upper div lectures had ~5% attendance.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#36

Post by tablespoon »

anonporridge wrote: post #26
mgh2 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try hiring someone without a degree in healthcare: someone's life is on the line, not some rich man's toy.

Healthcare demonstrates the other extreme of the problem in my experience, where entrance to the field is gatekept by the medical education system to ensure that there's not an over supply of professionals that would put downward pressure on existing salaries.

> Healthcare demonstrates the other extreme of the problem in my experience, where entrance to the field is gatekept by the medical education system to ensure that there's not an over supply of professionals that would put downward pressure on existing salaries.

That's not a bad thing (to a point) when the entry-level qualification takes a massive amount of time, intense effort, and money to get; it's very important that they manage it so there's no oversupply. If you don't, then you'll have disasters like US legal education has been.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#37

Post by drewcoo »

redthrow wrote: post #22
spywaregorilla wrote: post #4

Seems like a pretty unremarkable collection of surface level observations if you ask me

This could be Sam Altman reacting to the recent article about George Hotz [1] mentioning Sam Altman as actually being a pro status quo figure masquerading as an anti-establishment figure: [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30738763 It's a poetic mission statement for an endeavor which seems to jive with Hotz’s recognition that such a school must be physical and beautiful. However, scratch away the veneer, Hotz…

> a pro status quo figure masquerading as an anti-establishment figure

I call those "liberals." /s

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#38

Post by zdragnar »

itake wrote: post #12
zdragnar wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Price and value are decoupled for college degrees. STEM students are subsidized by liberal arts students, and many liberal arts degrees are not, by themselves, economically valuable (I said this as someone with just such a degree).

> STEM students are subsidized by liberal arts students Can you provide more context for this? How is the cost of teaching a STEM student higher than the cost of a liberal arts student? The classrooms are roughly the same. STEM student labs might be more expensive to manage, but that equipment is/(can be?) funded by research grants.

It is largely anecdotal based on some inquiries made at my school. Different schools will vary- is it a research school? What types of STEM degrees are offered? Etc. Others likely have more concrete insight than I do.

One conversation that stuck was the me:

Back when I was in school, one of my mandarin teachers wanted to offer a "business mandarin" course outside of the general language program geared towards business students who might need basic fluency in a corporate setting. The school denied him because there wasn't a budget for it, which struck me as asinine at the time as it wasn't like there would be students who weren't paying tuition for the course anyway. The school had rooms available, and students have to buy all the materials the class would need anyway.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#39

Post by oceanplexian »

mgh2 wrote: post #19
spywaregorilla wrote: post #4

Seems like a pretty unremarkable collection of surface level observations if you ask me

Try hiring someone without a degree in healthcare: someone's life is on the line, not some rich man's toy.

Lots of people have jobs that put lives on the line, Pilots for example. They don’t need a college degree to do that safely, competently, or legally. The idea that healthcare is somehow a special snowflake is nonsense.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#40

Post by 999900000999 »

Ehh.

College is a net good, but do it on the cheap. Unless you plan to attend a top law school, no one cares about your undergrad.

Community College students can still transfer into UCLA or other top schools. Hell, community college was good for me since I was able to take out student loans and get the hell away from my family.

No more evictions for me! Even if you don't finish college, it's a great deal. I was at 6 figures before I graduated.

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