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A sequence that we see all the time in the world of junk science

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Re: A sequence that we see all the time in the world of junk science

#11

Post by alphabettsy »

Zealotux wrote: post #7

"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes" – Author unclear Can we talk about the supposedly "cosmonauts arriving in the ISS wearing Ukraine's color" for a moment by the way? I saw that news posted at least 3 times today on HN, and it has been pushed all days on the front page on all media over here, I even got a notification on my phone from news outlets. But looking deeper i…

What’s to talk about? They are wearing uniforms that happen to have the same colors as Ukraine’s flag.

> yet news outlet have _zero_ doubt this is a political message from the cosmonauts.

Citation please. I’ve seen a couple of articles about it, neither offered a conclusion.

Re: A sequence that we see all the time in the world of junk science

#12

Post by coldcode »

The most valuable lesson people should learn is to be skeptical, or at least look for validation in hopefully uncorrelated sources. Not that it's an easy thing today. When the web first took over in the 90's many people thought that truth and facts would now be easier to see; instead it's even easier to spread whatever you want and people will believe it because it's on the internet. Sadly schools are failing to teach kids to validate and challenge everything; instead we get laws passed that require that kids never be shown anything that might make them upset. In the end much of society winds up believing whatever they are told because they have no framework to question anything.

Re: A sequence that we see all the time in the world of junk science

#13

Post by sieabahlpark »

alphabettsy wrote: post #11
Zealotux wrote: post #7

"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes" – Author unclear Can we talk about the supposedly "cosmonauts arriving in the ISS wearing Ukraine's color" for a moment by the way? I saw that news posted at least 3 times today on HN, and it has been pushed all days on the front page on all media over here, I even got a notification on my phone from news outlets. But looking deeper i…

What’s to talk about? They are wearing uniforms that happen to have the same colors as Ukraine’s flag. > yet news outlet have _zero_ doubt this is a political message from the cosmonauts. Citation please. I’ve seen a couple of articles about it, neither offered a conclusion.

No post body was provided.

Re: A sequence that we see all the time in the world of junk science

#14

Post by bmarquez »

alphabettsy wrote: post #11
Zealotux wrote: post #7

"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes" – Author unclear Can we talk about the supposedly "cosmonauts arriving in the ISS wearing Ukraine's color" for a moment by the way? I saw that news posted at least 3 times today on HN, and it has been pushed all days on the front page on all media over here, I even got a notification on my phone from news outlets. But looking deeper i…

What’s to talk about? They are wearing uniforms that happen to have the same colors as Ukraine’s flag. > yet news outlet have _zero_ doubt this is a political message from the cosmonauts. Citation please. I’ve seen a couple of articles about it, neither offered a conclusion.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/18/science/russian-astronaut...

> ...they were wearing flight suits of striking colors — yellow and blue, similar to the colors of Ukraine’s flag.

> The Russian astronauts did not say anything that would suggest that their clothing was a political statement. Yet it seemed difficult to believe it was happenstance. The outfits worn by astronauts in orbit on a daily basis tend to be subdued...

Edit: the parent commenter originally said "Citation please." without any elaboration.

Re: A sequence that we see all the time in the world of junk science

#15

Post by insickness »

estaseuropano wrote: post #9
insickness wrote: post #2

> Yet another form of misinformation is political lies of the sort that we’ve been seeing most notoriously from Russian propaganda lately. Are you referring to propaganda that Russia is spreading or the labeling of anyone who disagrees with the common narrative as Russian propaganda? It would seem to be there's a lot more of the second going on. Likewise, as much misinformation as there is going around, there's just…

This appears to be a strange self-conversation. You take words and twist them until they fit a point you wanted to make. Apparently you believe in things that most don't believe and that have been labeled (by whom?) as Russian propaganda. What does this add or subtract to the article? And if I dare say so: if others get the impression that ideas you share are propaganda it is worth reflecting how you formed these opi…

My point is that the "misinformation" label has constantly been used as a cover to censor. Two cases in point:

1. To say that Covid may have originated in a lab would get you censored on youtube, facebook and most other social media. It was misinformation until it wasn't. Now the lab leak theory is just as viable.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/05/26/facebook-ban-covid-...

2. When the story of Hunter Biden's laptop first broke, it was labeled by most mainstream media, along with 50 intelligence experts, as Russian propaganda. Now even the New York Times admits that it was authentic.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/all-the-news-thats-finally-fit-...

Re: A sequence that we see all the time in the world of junk science

#17

Post by kingcharles »

insickness wrote: post #15
estaseuropano wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This appears to be a strange self-conversation. You take words and twist them until they fit a point you wanted to make. Apparently you believe in things that most don't believe and that have been labeled (by whom?) as Russian propaganda. What does this add or subtract to the article? And if I dare say so: if others get the impression that ideas you share are propaganda it is worth reflecting how you formed these opi…

My point is that the "misinformation" label has constantly been used as a cover to censor. Two cases in point: 1. To say that Covid may have originated in a lab would get you censored on youtube, facebook and most other social media. It was misinformation until it wasn't. Now the lab leak theory is just as viable. https://www.politico.com/news/2021/05/26/facebook-ban-covid-... 2. When the story of Hunter Biden's lapt…

I agree that there's been too much of this lately. The lab leak one I fell for myself, feeling it was too conspiratorial, until Biden popped up on TV and said the US felt like the idea had legs. And then I felt stupid. But it was a good lesson in not drinking the whole cup of Kool-Aid.

Although I fell again for the Cosmonaut jumpsuit palaver :(

Re: A sequence that we see all the time in the world of junk science

#18

Post by WalterGR »

insickness wrote: post #15
estaseuropano wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This appears to be a strange self-conversation. You take words and twist them until they fit a point you wanted to make. Apparently you believe in things that most don't believe and that have been labeled (by whom?) as Russian propaganda. What does this add or subtract to the article? And if I dare say so: if others get the impression that ideas you share are propaganda it is worth reflecting how you formed these opi…

My point is that the "misinformation" label has constantly been used as a cover to censor. Two cases in point: 1. To say that Covid may have originated in a lab would get you censored on youtube, facebook and most other social media. It was misinformation until it wasn't. Now the lab leak theory is just as viable. https://www.politico.com/news/2021/05/26/facebook-ban-covid-... 2. When the story of Hunter Biden's lapt…

Your citations don’t back up your claims, I’m afraid.

Re: A sequence that we see all the time in the world of junk science

#19

Post by insickness »

WalterGR wrote: post #18
insickness wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that the "misinformation" label has constantly been used as a cover to censor. Two cases in point: 1. To say that Covid may have originated in a lab would get you censored on youtube, facebook and most other social media. It was misinformation until it wasn't. Now the lab leak theory is just as viable. https://www.politico.com/news/2021/05/26/facebook-ban-covid-... 2. When the story of Hunter Biden's lapt…

Your citations don’t back up your claims, I’m afraid.

The citation is in my comment. Here it is again:

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/05/26/facebook-ban-covid-...

More:

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-06-07/facebo...

Re: A sequence that we see all the time in the world of junk science

#20

Post by ModernMech »

insickness wrote: post #15
estaseuropano wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This appears to be a strange self-conversation. You take words and twist them until they fit a point you wanted to make. Apparently you believe in things that most don't believe and that have been labeled (by whom?) as Russian propaganda. What does this add or subtract to the article? And if I dare say so: if others get the impression that ideas you share are propaganda it is worth reflecting how you formed these opi…

My point is that the "misinformation" label has constantly been used as a cover to censor. Two cases in point: 1. To say that Covid may have originated in a lab would get you censored on youtube, facebook and most other social media. It was misinformation until it wasn't. Now the lab leak theory is just as viable. https://www.politico.com/news/2021/05/26/facebook-ban-covid-... 2. When the story of Hunter Biden's lapt…

Propaganda can be authentic. For example, during the 2016 election the Russians hacked the DNC and leaked the retrieved e-mails. They were authentic but they were also part of a propaganda campaign.

Hunter Biden’s laptop appears be authentic but it’s hard to tell what data and how much given the unknown provenance of the device. It was also clearly part of a smear campaign involving Rudy Giuliani, who himself has been caught literally spreading Russian propaganda. The heart of the whole Hunter Biden laptop issue was that it was being used to suggest that Pres. Biden was engaged in nefarious business deals with his son and China, which so far has not been proven, the laptop notwithstanding.

On measure given what Russia did in 2016, how the Republican Senate Intel Committee found that Trump and his associates willfully engaged with Russians to aid his campaign, and Trump’s clear assertion that he would engage in the same conduct in the future, the actions taken during 2020 seem prudent to me.

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