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On Being Indispensable

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Re: On Being Indispensable

#271

Post by alar44 »

jacobyoder wrote: post #229
kayodelycaon wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve gotten laid off twice despite department VPs two levels up trying to keep me. The second time I realized that there is no point in trusting in anything related to my relationship with the company. It doesn’t matter how good you are when the people making decisions either don’t know or don’t care. Eventually you become inconvenient in some way and you get removed.

reversedly, I was at a company where I kept focusing on 'stuff', trying to respond on time, hit deadlines, etc. Went to lunch with someone and he kept saying "chill out, don't sweat it". We were late back from lunch. It bothered me, but not him. I found out a few months later he was dating the niece of the dept manager. The two of them were friends with another lead on the floor. This is why he was always 'chill' abo…

Maybe he was in because he was pleasant to work with and not stressed all the time? I've seen new busybodies like you (maybe) and no one wants to be around them.

Re: On Being Indispensable

#272

Post by alar44 »

jaywalk wrote: post #189
galangalalgol wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is brilliant! In the US it isn't that unusual to find companies that don't even offer 2 weeks vacation in total though.

Come on. Outside of the lowest-level hourly positions, you're not going to find any US company that doesn't offer at least two weeks vacation.

Oh boy, are you out of touch, kudos.

Re: On Being Indispensable

#273

Post by pc86 »

nvarsj wrote: post #91
hinkley wrote: post #10

In the spirit of the old saying, "the two happiest days of a boat owner's life are the day they buy a boat, and the day they sell it." The best advice I got starting out was, "be indispensable." The best advice I got four years later was, "don't be indispensable." In a growing company, the indispensable people may find themselves being left holding the bag while new initiatives are undertaken. I very quickly learned…

This happened in the first company I worked for. It was a big, well known engineering company, and when things started going south they had to negotiate with the state labor department to do large layoffs, which required giving financial cushions to let go employees. I was a star employee - so while everyone else was being laid off with nice, big compensation packages (like 6-12 months of salary), I was stuck in a co…

Ethical issues aside it's easy to see how people in that situation can basically just stop working / start interview prepping while waiting for the layoff.

Re: On Being Indispensable

#274

Post by alar44 »

jedberg wrote: post #240
shapefrog wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience companies offer may offer sabbaticals, HR may promote them, the documentation may be shiny; but it is career suicide for anoyone who hasnt already made it to the top.

You must have worked for some awful companies. Everywhere I've worked the sabbatical was highly encouraged and the people came back refreshed and often got promoted soon afterwards.

I have never worked for a company that offers sabbaticals and I'm fairly certain I don't even know anyone that works for a company that offers them. I've never met anyone who has mentioned taking one either. AFAIC, they aren't even real.

Re: On Being Indispensable

#275

Post by alar44 »

civilized wrote: post #179
chii wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and this job you describe is the CEO (or CTO, or whatever CxO level people). It is indeed indispensable - a firm shows a poor signal if they have to switch CEOs, or one gets fired, or resigns without a good replacement. The problem is that there's usually only 1 CEO to a firm, and not everybody can get to that level.

Where is this company where the C-suite has the only people who Know The Business and everyone else is just a coding monkey? Maybe at a tiny startup, but outside of that, I wouldn't expect to see it.

Manufacturing. A lot of times the guy invented and built the product himself along with the rest of the business over the years.

Re: On Being Indispensable

#276

Post by jedberg »

alar44 wrote: post #274
jedberg wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must have worked for some awful companies. Everywhere I've worked the sabbatical was highly encouraged and the people came back refreshed and often got promoted soon afterwards.

I have never worked for a company that offers sabbaticals and I'm fairly certain I don't even know anyone that works for a company that offers them. I've never met anyone who has mentioned taking one either. AFAIC, they aren't even real.

14 Companies Offering Sabbaticals: https://www.glassdoor.com/blog/42136-2/

77 Companies that offer sabbaticals: https://fairygodboss.com/career-topics/sabbaticals-77-compan...

Re: On Being Indispensable

#277

Post by throwaway6532 »

hinkley wrote: post #230
CapitalistCartr wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Principles are a luxury not afforded the poor masses.

I’ll take “people who haven’t bought a house or have kids” for 500, Alex There’s a thread right now in r/experiencedDevs about a guy who is trying to buy a house while his employer is cratering around him. Stuff like that happens and tends to stick with you forever.

I have a house and a kid and I have quit on principle before.

Re: On Being Indispensable

#278

Post by throwaway6532 »

alichapman wrote: post #82
wanderingmind wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the bus drivers were paid by the number of people who take the bus sure, but when are paid by the travel route distance, they have no obligation to do what they are not paid to do.

Yes but if the number of people on the bus dropped to zero do you think their employers would keep running the route?

My old bus route to work used to amuse me greatly because on it there were two drivers who were the polar opposite of one another. One guy I assumed had previously been the pilot of a commercial airliner because he used to greet everyone who got onto the bus with that sort of demeanor and make announcements etc. Always brightened my day. The other guy was the grumpiest piece of shit bus driver I've seen anywhere in my life who would frequently berate passengers and oftentimes frighten unsuspecting foreigners. Everyone who needed to get to where they were going showed up and took the bus regardless. It's about the least important variable there is and it averages out to getting a reasonably OK bus driver almost all the time across the different busses you take and the different times of day you take them.

Re: On Being Indispensable

#279

Post by throwaway6532 »

pklausler wrote: post #214
hinkley wrote: post #10

In the spirit of the old saying, "the two happiest days of a boat owner's life are the day they buy a boat, and the day they sell it." The best advice I got starting out was, "be indispensable." The best advice I got four years later was, "don't be indispensable." In a growing company, the indispensable people may find themselves being left holding the bag while new initiatives are undertaken. I very quickly learned…

> you can ride off into the sunset with a clear conscience You can always do that.

This was the big lesson I learned recently and I whole heartedly agree. It's can be very dangerous to your mental health to not have this perspective if you wind up emotionally trapped in a bad situation.

Re: On Being Indispensable

#280

Post by throwaway6532 »

hinkley wrote: post #8
at_a_remove wrote: post #5

In an age where loyalty between employer and employee is long in rear window (if it wasn't just a useful fable from the get-go), all you are left with are the grim permutations of game theory, all wary glances and knife edges barely concealed. Being indispensable is the closest thing you have to security, and as for "stopping learning," well, most companies want you to do that in your off-time, anyway. Throwing that…

There is something to be said for being indispensible for novel problems, instead of for known problems. Some of the worst behavior I've seen in both myself and others has come when you can hold your company hostage by refusing to do something. Even when you are using it for 'the greater good', that's not a good look and not a great feeling. You shouldn't have to go with the nuclear option to get something done, even…

This was my exact situation circa a year ago. It wasn't a great look. It was an even worse feeling. It delayed the start of the project I refused by a year and didn't change management's view on how to get it done.

All that being said the writing was on the wall that I was facing either the nuclear option of resigning, or a second round of even more severe burnout by going along with it.

In hindsight my strategy going forward next time I'm presented with a plan that has predictably disastrous consequences is to simply let them have it their way. IDGAF if you wreck this thing further. I'll even help you do it. We'll maintain friendly relations and I'll leave the company near the end of the project but before it becomes apparent just how bad things really are.

If you can't beat em join em. Cynical as that is I have to protect my mental health and I'm willing to allow you to sacrifice the health of your company to do it.

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